I believe Hollow Knight is more difficult than Silksong overall *spoilers*

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Current Events » I believe Hollow Knight is more difficult than Silksong overall *spoilers*
I think the difficulty curve is kinda inverse overall which definitely makes people FEEL like Silksong is "harder", but the spikes in difficulty with Hollow Knight are FAR beyond what Silksong asks of you to get 100% of the story.

Hollow Knight eases you into the difficulty but it kinda ramps up throughout and peaks harder. Silksong starts off more difficult (and arguably with less rewards for beating bosses) but the end game is FAR more simple in Silksong. Even the "big climb" platforming challenge of Silksong pales in comparison to Hollow Knight.
Lindsay - Jan 13, 1990 - July 17, 2023
Thank you for fighting the fight for so long for me.
I think it's harder than HK's base game but some of the DLC bosses are tougher than anything Silksong provides.

I'm of two minds about the platforming. There were platforming sections in HK that I was stuck on for fucking ages and I can't remember anything like that for Silksong, but I think you could argue Silksong just generally demands more from the player in that regard which forces you to get better at it. HK restricts its platforming challenges to specific areas like the White Palace which makes it a huge difficulty spike for a lot of people.

That said, the float does a lot. Path of Pain would be a lot simpler if you were able to float and make those small adjustments when you just miss a pogo.
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Base game HK is definitely easier, lol. We have a lot of nice additions in SS which definitely feel better and can feel like the make aspects easier, but boss fights in HK are far more simplistic, slower, and on average, aren't as punishing.

The additional content, in HK, is a different story, though. That's why HK is the harder game, until SS gets itself some good DLCs at least.
"That is so fetch!"
Hard disagree. I think HK2 demands precision from the player and is very, very punishing in defeat. I also think its economy is outright broken (in service of the story). Just started up HK1 today and it's as I remembered it. Very trivial early game, no walls. No punishment for losing since the early platforming doesn't demand precision in the way 2 does

HK2's is less of a curve and more of a series of sharp and sudden sheer cliffs. HK's is a ski-lift.

Have not yet played DLC at all
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Maybe I'm a little out of touch since I didn't play HK until it was complete so I don't distinguish the DLC from the rest of the original release like that?
Lindsay - Jan 13, 1990 - July 17, 2023
Thank you for fighting the fight for so long for me.
Not sure about the additional stuff, but Silksong base is way harder. To the point I found it not fun. Just constant annoyance. I was making it through it, but I wasn't happy, so I quit.
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pegusus123456 posted...


I'm of two minds about the platforming. There were platforming sections in HK that I was stuck on for fucking ages and I can't remember anything like that for Silksong, but I think you could argue Silksong just generally demands more from the player in that regard which forces you to get better at it. HK restricts its platforming challenges to specific areas like the White Palace which makes it a huge difficulty spike for a lot of people.

https://www.reddit.com/r/perfectlycutscreams/comments/1n979hh/game_of_the_year/

I don't remember Hollow Knight hitting you with stuff like this early on.

But TBH, that isn't too bad, but that combined with Bile water it does ask for a lot of precision often.
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badjay posted...
https://www.reddit.com/r/perfectlycutscreams/comments/1n979hh/game_of_the_year/

I don't remember Hollow Knight hitting you with stuff like this early on.

But TBH, that isn't too bad, but that combined with Bile water it does ask for a lot of precision often.

Clips like this are SO bizarre. You get plenty of time to get used to the diagonal POGO and you can clearly see him literally point in the wrong direction over and over.
Lindsay - Jan 13, 1990 - July 17, 2023
Thank you for fighting the fight for so long for me.
Jeff_AKA_Snoopy posted...
Maybe I'm a little out of touch since I didn't play HK until it was complete so I don't distinguish the DLC from the rest of the original release like that?
The bosses in question would mostly be Grimm/NKG, Pure Vessel, and Absolute Radiance. With a smattering of some of the Radiant upgraded bosses in the Pantheon like Sisters of Battle and Markoth.
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Hollow Knight got some bs bosses like Grimm and Absolute Radiance
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pegusus123456 posted...
The bosses in question would mostly be Grimm/NKG, Pure Vessel, and Absolute Radiance. With a smattering of some of the Radiant upgraded bosses in the Pantheon like Sisters of Battle and Markoth.

Those bosses are by FAR more difficult than anything Silksong has to offer. Also the "Path of Pain" that HK has compared to Silksong is not even close. HK's is WAY more difficult.
Lindsay - Jan 13, 1990 - July 17, 2023
Thank you for fighting the fight for so long for me.
badjay posted...
https://www.reddit.com/r/perfectlycutscreams/comments/1n979hh/game_of_the_year/

I don't remember Hollow Knight hitting you with stuff like this early on.

But TBH, that isn't too bad, but that combined with Bile water it does ask for a lot of precision often.
Yeah, exactly. HK concentrates the platforming challenge in specific areas, Silksong spreads them out a lot more.
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the thing is, people actually get to the late-game in Hollow Knight. Silksong has various filter points. ive got friends who haven't even gotten to the midgame due to frustration
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Jeff_AKA_Snoopy posted...


Clips like this are SO bizarre. You get plenty of time to get used to the diagonal POGO and you can clearly see him literally point in the wrong direction over and over.

Haha it is true, but it is an adjustment to make and get used to.

If he finds it frustrating enjoy the Mushroom Path.

But really I'm more disappointed in Silksong not having a Path of Pain V.2 challenge, that was a bit annoying. Maybe it's because of all the tools that Hornett has that making something SEEM like the path of pain looks easy for more players.

One thing HK has over Hornet is invincibility shadow dash though, that shit is OP and Hornet has it locked on a silkskill.

Outside of that Hornet has absurd amounts of mobility options compared to HK.
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Jeff_AKA_Snoopy posted...
Those bosses are by FAR more difficult than anything Silksong has to offer. Also the "Path of Pain" that HK has compared to Silksong is not even close. HK's is WAY more difficult.
I think there are spots in Silksong where it gets close to PoP, but that's just it: they're spots. I think the climb to the Nameless Town would fit right into PoP, but it's relatively short where PoP is very long.
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badjay posted...
One thing HK has over Hornet is invincibility shadow dash though, that shit is OP and Hornet has it locked on a silkskill.
It's also just not nearly as good as the Shade Cloak. There's a delay on it which makes it not very useful for avoiding attacks the way Shade Cloak is. I think Cross Stitch is way closer to being the Shade Cloak in terms of usability.
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Captain_Qwark posted...
There was only like 3-4 bosses in Silksong that took me more than 5 tries.

I remember a bunch of HK bosses kicking my ass but maybe I just got way better at the genre since 2017
idk about others, but when i say 2 is harder i'm not talking about the bosses. i'm talking about a sum of factors. basically the DNA itself, the core

it seems to have a fundamental difference in philosophy from the first game
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Captain_Qwark posted...
There was only like 3-4 bosses in Silksong that took me more than 5 tries.

I remember a bunch of HK bosses kicking my ass but maybe I just got way better at the genre since 2017

I think there was only one boss that made me attempt it more than 10 times. HK definitely had more punishing boss battles.
Lindsay - Jan 13, 1990 - July 17, 2023
Thank you for fighting the fight for so long for me.
pegusus123456 posted...
It's also just not nearly as good as the Shade Cloak. There's a delay on it which makes it not very useful for avoiding attacks the way Shade Cloak is. I think Cross Stitch is way closer to being the Shade Cloak in terms of usability.
I ended up using that ability the most in the game.
[05:45:34] I bought an American L and it was like a tent
the difficulty ramp in silksong is steeper because it assumes you beat/played hollow knight first, but hollow knight escalates more over the course of the game (also godmaster challenges are wack)

that said, they're probably going to add some kind of boss gauntlet to silksong at some point. So.
Why not go all in?
well you're completely wrong and probably should play HK1 again and see how easy it actually is.

the DLC is the only real hard part in the game but even those bosses are like just on par with like half of the bosses in silksong. the base game of HK1 i beat most bosses first try. final boss i beat 1st try. if anything the game gets even easier as you go. you just get so much health and it's easy enough to keep healing and power through pretty much every fight.

silksong feels like it assumes you beat HK1 for a warmup.
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HK DLC > Silksong base game > HK base game for me.

Nothing in Silksong took me as long to beat as the bosses that walled me in HK's DLCs, but a lot of the bosses from the mid point onward felt like they were about as difficult and complex moveset wise as PV and NKG.
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NKG, Pantheons, and PoP are the only things that really reach/surpass Silksong in terms of difficulty, and they're all DLC stuff. I'd say the main game's only difficulty-related walls are Watcher Knights and Radiance, maybe White Palace if you're not as into the platforming aspect. Meanwhile Silksong has walls everywhere
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What walls did Silksong have? Beyond a couple boss fights taking more than 5 attempts, I can't think of anything in Silksong that barred my forward progress much at all.
Lindsay - Jan 13, 1990 - July 17, 2023
Thank you for fighting the fight for so long for me.
Jeff_AKA_Snoopy posted...
Maybe I'm a little out of touch since I didn't play HK until it was complete so I don't distinguish the DLC from the rest of the original release like that?
This is likely what it is. You have to understand that PoP in HK was not in the base game and was added later. Both PoP and NKG are generally considered harder than anything in Silksong. Basically Silksong starts assuming that you were able to clear original HK, so it starts off at the level of difficulty around HK's midgame. Once they eventually do release updates I'm sure Silksong will be considered harder.

Can't comment on the Pantheon DLC in HK1, I figured those were meant for people that are super freaks at the game.
Jeff_AKA_Snoopy posted...
What walls did Silksong have? Beyond a couple boss fights taking more than 5 attempts, I can't think of anything in Silksong that barred my forward progress much at all.
Based off complaints on the board:

Hunters March
Bilewater traversal
Groal himself
The Last Judge
Karmelita
Lost Lace
Trobbio 2
Mount Fay
Forum fight
"That is so fetch!"
pegusus123456 posted...
I think the climb to the Nameless Town would fit right into PoP
I wouldn't even call that WP worthy considering how uneventful it is, it's just a long vertical climb with infinite healing in between and nothing actually dangerous until maybe the very last party where you need a little bit timing with the enemy pogo's, the rest of it is just basic jump + dash.
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Limelol posted...
Based off complaints on the board:

Hunters March
Bilewater traversal
Groal himself
The Last Judge
Karmelita
Lost Lace
Trobbio 2
Mount Fay
Forum fight

Hunter's March was a bit of a challenge but it was fun!
Bilewater was basically nothing
Groal was 3 attempts for me.
Last Judge was 4 attempts
Karmelita was my 10+ attempt fight. But you don't even waste supplies in fighting her.
Lost Lace and Trobbio 2 were about 5 attempts each.
Mount Fay was a lot of fun! Interesting mechanics.
Forum Fight took me 2 attempts.
Lindsay - Jan 13, 1990 - July 17, 2023
Thank you for fighting the fight for so long for me.
Jeff_AKA_Snoopy posted...
What walls did Silksong have? Beyond a couple boss fights taking more than 5 attempts, I can't think of anything in Silksong that barred my forward progress much at all.
mine were

Hunter's March (did it dashless because i'm stubborn)
Moorwing
Last Judge
Trobbio
Forum gaunlet
Lace 2
Bell Eater
Karrmelita
Lost Lace

Tormented Trobbio was also really hard but completely optional anyway
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lucariopikmin posted...
I wouldn't even call that WP worthy considering how uneventful it is, it's just a long vertical climb with infinite healing in between and nothing actually dangerous until maybe the very last party where you need a little bit timing with the enemy pogo's, the rest of it is just basic jump + dash.
i was stupid and went in with witch crest so didn't exactly have unlimited healing....
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lucariopikmin posted...
I wouldn't even call that WP worthy considering how uneventful it is, it's just a long vertical climb with infinite healing in between and nothing actually dangerous until maybe the very last party where you need a little bit timing with the enemy pogo's, the rest of it is just basic jump + dash.

yea that might be the closest silksong got to PoP but it was way easier compared to it. only took me like 10 minutes to do it and i was sad when that was it. i thought that was just like the first room and there was gonna be more to it. maybe we'll get something if they do DLC which hopefully will be free.

Limelol posted...
Based off complaints on the board:

Hunters March
Bilewater traversal
Groal himself
The Last Judge
Karmelita
Lost Lace
Trobbio 2
Mount Fay
Forum fight

a lot of these really weren't that bad. at the time i thought a lot were bad but even lost lace took me like 10 tries.

forum fight i beat 2nd try and don't really get why so many people struggled so much with that.

i would say the fire beastfly fight was harder than all of that but lost lace and karmelita but it's optional.

mount fay really wasn't that bad. my only problem with it is i thought i needed a cloak upgrade to protect against the cold so i didn't even get double jump till act 3. which seen plenty of others that thought the same thing and not like double dump was required for anything to beat act 2.
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creativeme posted...
i would say the fire beastfly fight was harder than all of that but lost lace and karmelita but it's optional.
I wouldn't even count Beastfly because the only reason it's difficult is because it's bullshit
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Does Silksong have a

PV or NKG tier fight where it's very tough and fast but reasonably fair

And/or AR/ Markoth/ Pre-nerfed Collector tier bosses

HK is like 90% excellent bosses, but 3-4 bring it down. RAR wouldn't be so bad if the attacks didn't overlap. It's literally the final thing I need to beat. Pantheon of Hallownest is cake compared to RAR
I think the only fight I've done that felt like actual bullshit was the Beastfly I mentioned in the previous post. All of the others felt pretty fair.

That said, some of the stuff around some of those bosses feels like bullshit. Like Groal on his own is fine, but he is the endpoint of the worst area in either game with a runback that is either obnoxious or Team Cherry mailing you a box of elephant shit depending on whether you find a hidden bench.
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creativeme posted...
a lot of these really weren't that bad.
I agree, but it is what a lot of the complaints regarding difficulty surrounded.

"That is so fetch!"
It's been a long time since I beat HK and all the DLC so I don't really remember specifically, but like others have said I feel like the bosses took me longer in HK than SS but also maybe I'm just better now. I also finished act 2 in SS before figuring out how to upgrade my nail and still didn't think it was that bad. My biggest exceptions are Groal without the closer bench and the forum. Again, base nail damage so it wasn't nearly as bad my second playthrough.
Momentai
I did see a reddit comment pointing something out: some of the basic enemies in Silksong have more moves than some bosses in Hollow Knight.

Like those medium-sized ant guards could be an early game boss in HK with very few changes to their movepool lol.
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pegusus123456 posted...
I did see a reddit comment pointing something out: some of the basic enemies in Silksong have more moves than some bosses in Hollow Knight.

Like those medium-sized ant guards could be an early game boss in HK with very few changes to their movepool lol.

Good point, I was either running from or making strong use of my tools for a lot of randoms if I hadn't figured their patterns out.
Momentai
yeah im about 4 hours into my replay of 1, just killed mantis lords and got thru deepnest. this game is a comparative joke. died twice so far (none to bosses)
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Silksong is like a souls game in comparison. Every boss has kicked my ass where only a few kicked my ass in HK.

HK did have some platforming parts that were impossible for me without using mods. Those areas were optional but I still cheated to 100% the game.
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He/Him
Nah, if you found HK harder than Silksong you were just worse when you played it. In every objective measure the game that had its hardest fight moved from "the final boss" to "a fight so easy it expects you to do a challenge version of it." The DLC at least has an argument as being harder, but seeing as this is pre-"already announced" DLC for Silksong it is pretty obviously ridiculous to compare it to the base games' raw difficulty.
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