Playing Bach on guitar be like

Ok so this is a chord
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/1/1e9eefc9.png

(triangle means hammer on/off)

Also this is a chord
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/3/339809e4.png

Oh and this too
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/d/db81045c.png

Don't forget this one https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/1/12188268.png

Stupid freaking Bach

I dunno, I've tried playing a few chords on guitar and I couldn't do any of them. At least, not without hurting myself.

There's a reason I stick with bass now in days.

Ive never played guitar, but Ive heard a lot of Bach music played on guitar. Is it really a problem? Its always so beautiful.

How was he to know that one day people would want to play his stuff on an instrument which would require people to combine the hand size and strength of a goalie with the dexterity and precision of a brian surgeon?

ai123 posted...

the dexterity and precision of a brian surgeon?

You don't have to be that precise, Brians are sturdy.

It's not like we're dealing with a Chauncey.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxvOXsv6eQw

https://youtu.be/DfN75_81oXQ?si=Cr6aP-VDRhEPFjCI

Sariana21 posted...

Ive never played guitar, but Ive heard a lot of Bach music played on guitar. Is it really a problem? Its always so beautiful.

Bach didn't write anything for guitar, and often when he composed things for lute it was on a "lautenwerk", a now extinct lute harpsichord - a keyboard instrument with gut strings that sounded like a lute.

The consequence of this is that you have stuff that is very logical and sensible to play on a keyboard but due to the totally alien layout of a guitar - not to mention less available fingers - you have to do all kinds of ridiculous spider acrobatics to make it work.

You can tell when music is written for guitar. Even if it's very difficult to play it still feels like it was written by someone who knows how a guitar works.

Bach's music can be slow and plodding but still require a lot of skill because your hands get in the way. I guess an analogy would be like trying to type with your toes rather than your hands. It feels like you're making it harder than it needs to be.

pinky0926 posted...

a "lautenwerk",

Think I shot a Nazi with one of those in the newer Wolfensteins.

DrizztLink posted...

Think I shot a Nazi with one of those in the newer Wolfensteins.

Love those games

Have you tried looking for different arrangements?

I mostly play piano, which is quite versatile in terms of being able to physically play things (very wide range, many notes at once) so I can't exactly relate. but even then I can tell the difference between a good arrangement of a piece and a bad one and the bad ones are way worse to play in basically all respects

pinky0926 posted...

Bach didn't write anything for guitar, and often when he composed things for lute it was on a "lautenwerk", a now extinct lute harpsichord - a keyboard instrument with gut strings that sounded like a lute.

The consequence of this is that you have stuff that is very logical and sensible to play on a keyboard but due to the totally alien layout of a guitar - not to mention less available fingers - you have to do all kinds of ridiculous spider acrobatics to make it work.

You can tell when music is written for guitar. Even if it's very difficult to play it still feels like it was written by someone who knows how a guitar works.

Bach's music can be slow and plodding but still require a lot of skill because your hands get in the way. I guess an analogy would be like trying to type with your toes rather than your hands. It feels like you're making it harder than it needs to be.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing!

I could never be a composer. Instruments have so many quirks. For example, I play the bassoon, and F# and Eflat are tough to play in tune. But who besides a bassoon player would know that?

The bassoon part for Variations on a Korean Folk Song is basically impossible to play. Its in the lowest register, and there are no (known) alternate fingerings to make the runs playable. Who knew? I didnt until I was in a band with someone who knew the principal bassoonist for the (nearby major city)s symphony orchestra. So then I felt better about not being able to play the piece. If the professional says its nearly impossible.

kirbymuncher posted...

Have you tried looking for different arrangements?

I mostly play piano, which is quite versatile in terms of being able to physically play things (very wide range, many notes at once) so I can't exactly relate. but even then I can tell the difference between a good arrangement of a piece and a bad one and the bad ones are way worse to play in basically all respects

I'm working through the prelude of the well tempered clavier, in c major. I've looked at a few different arrangements. It's usually down to "this is correct and sounds good if done right, but it sucks to play and will sound if you mess it up and you probably will, but here's the easier version that skips some notes but is doable".

I try to go for the first one until i fail at it.

Sariana21 posted...

Interesting. Thanks for sharing!

I could never be a composer. Instruments have so many quirks. For example, I play the bassoon, and F# and Eflat are tough to play in tune. But who besides a bassoon player would know that?

The bassoon part for Variations on a Korean Folk Song is basically impossible to play. Its in the lowest register, and there are no (known) alternate fingerings to make the runs playable. Who knew? I didnt until I was in a band with someone who knew the principal bassoonist for the (nearby major city)s symphony orchestra. So then I felt better about not being able to play the piece. If the professional says its nearly impossible.

Bach was amazing, and his music is amazing. It somehow transcends time and instrument, always sounding good and fresh. But it's a pain in the ass for the performer. So hard to play, nowhere to hide, no tricks you can do to smooth things out.

Is bassoon tuned to an equal temperament, do you know? I've always wondered this about brass instruments. I guess you change the pitch with your mouth so it doesnt matter?

16-BITTER posted...

Feel like this could be solved with a different tuning

It can be, somewhat. You sacrifice some of the deep bass notes to make it a little easier.

pinky0926 posted...

Is bassoon tuned to an equal temperament, do you know? I've always wondered this about brass instruments. I guess you change the pitch with your mouth so it doesnt matter?

So, this is opening a giant can of worms that for all I know you may already know all about. So forgive me if this is old news. But the short of it is, instruments in general, along with music theory/notation, just aren't designed or built to really be in tune. They're designed around an approximation that's actually possible (or at least, reasonable) to play.

The smoking gun is the tritone, also know as the diminished fifth. A C and an F# are an interval of a tritone. The frequency of a C and the C an octave lower have a ratio of 2:1, and the tritone splits it geometrically (that is, a C to an F# and an F# to a C are the same interval), so mathematically, the tritone has a frequency ratio of root 2. Pythagoras proved a long time ago that this is an irrational number, which flies directly in the face of the entire idea of the circle of fifths, which is all about deriving new notes in a 3:2 ratio.

The reality of the situation is that the circle of fifths only kinda works. This is why, for example, the F# in a D major chord is 14 (I believe) cents sharp to really be in tune. We refer to this in the approximation as a microtone.

So yes, for a competent brass player, it's imperative to understand the harmony of the piece and lip up/down as relevant. You simply can't tune the instrument to play two different pitches of F#. Unless it happens to be a trombone. :) You don't necessarily need to understand the theory, but you do need a good ear.

Also, for the record, a bassoon is woodwind.

Eh, I've played worse.

*shrug*

ReturnOfDevsman posted...

So, this is opening a giant can of worms that for all I know you may already know all about. So forgive me if this is old news. But the short of it is, instruments in general, along with music theory/notation, just aren't designed or built to really be in tune. They're designed around an approximation that's actually possible (or at least, reasonable) to play.

The smoking gun is the tritone, also know as the diminished fifth. A C and an F# are an interval of a tritone. The frequency of a C and the C an octave lower have a ratio of 2:1, and the tritone splits it geometrically (that is, a C to an F# and an F# to a C are the same interval), so mathematically, the tritone has a frequency ratio of root 2. Pythagoras proved a long time ago that this is an irrational number, which flies directly in the face of the entire idea of the circle of fifths, which is all about deriving new notes in a 3:2 ratio.

The reality of the situation is that the circle of fifths only kinda works. This is why, for example, the F# in a D major chord is 14 (I believe) cents sharp to really be in tune. We refer to this in the approximation as a microtone.

So yes, for a competent brass player, it's imperative to understand the harmony of the piece and lip up/down as relevant. You simply can't tune the instrument to play two different pitches of F#. Unless it happens to be a trombone. :) You don't necessarily need to understand the theory, but you do need a good ear.

Also, for the record, a bassoon is woodwind.

Thats exactly why I asked! I wondered if brass/woodwind instruments were tuned to a particular key to get a just intonation and the rest was fixed with embouchere

Wow, thats more than I ever knew!

For the record, though, a bassoon reed is more flexible than a brass instrument, in my opinion. (Ive played both.). I can play an entire simple melody on just the reed, by shifting its position in my mouth and/or shifting my lips. (Can do the same with a brass mouthpiece, but for me, not as well.) Once its on the bocal and instrument it is not quite so adaptable, but there still is a lot of adjustment a player can make.

ReturnOfDevsman posted...

I dunno, I've tried playing a few chords on guitar and I couldn't do any of them. At least, not without hurting myself.

It helps to start young. It is a matter of coordination, stretch, strength and calluses. That which does not kill you makes you stronger.

pinky0926 posted...

Ok so this is a chord
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/1/1e9eefc9.png

(triangle means hammer on/off)

Also this is a chord
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/3/339809e4.png

Oh and this too
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/d/db81045c.png

Don't forget this one https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/1/12188268.png

Stupid freaking Bach

Bass isn't safe from Bach either-

https://youtu.be/BIRLPeSYdUU?si=eWrU7JPnBO6zew1M

Tbh other than the first chord those aren't that hard. The first chord is impossible without wrapping your thumb and having Jimi Hendrix sized hands tho.

Smashingpmkns posted...

Tbh other than the first chord those aren't that hard. The first chord is impossible without wrapping your thumb and having Jimi Hendrix sized hands tho.

The way I saw it played is by doing a bar chord with your index finger across two frets diagonally, which is horrible and weird