ai denial will be the next climate denial

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Current Events » ai denial will be the next climate denial
people will insist that

  1. we need ai
  2. ai is awesome
  3. if you disagree you don't understand it


obviously these people will not be able to explain what a transformer neural net is nor how it works.

what's the best play here? like, imagine that your job will come to you in the next 1-2 years and demand you come up with a plan to use ai more. what are you gonna do?
April 15, 2024: The Day the Internet Died
To be fair the coming generation is not going to be taught crap-all, so they'll actually need AI to tell them how to change their underwear.
"A shouted order to do something of dubious morality with an unpredictable outcome? Thweeet! "
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There's a rising epidemic of people wanting results without putting in the work so that's why they think AI is so god-like.
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I don't even use a computer for my job with the occasional exception of doing a training course or changing my password for the handheld scanner. An AI being used in my job would require changes on management's end before it would even make sense for me to be coming up with any sort of plan.
Except all the denial will be coming from ai pretending to be online people
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Funny enough AI is making the climate crisis worse.
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so our general plan is to simply ignore ai and hope that it just goes the way of 3-D television?

im not saying it's a bad plan.
April 15, 2024: The Day the Internet Died
Worth remembering here that AI is an idea and you can't ban an idea.

Whether you like AI or not, it's coming. If you want to try and fight against it, all that means is that someone else is going to be the leader on AI - likely China. Ask yourself if you really want China to be the first one to master AI vehicles or AI soldiers or AI jets.
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Yeah, I think we all just need to accept that AI has a lot of powerful potential, accept that it's mostly a "genie out of the bottle" scenario at this point, & start deciding how we're going to live with it.
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I guess I should clarify. I know the technology can be useful. It's just a mathematical structure. I understand how it functions on a fundamental level.

I was talking about 3 types of AI primarily:

  1. Generative LLMs
  2. Generative Image Programs
  3. AI Assistants


If you think "it has potential" to get "smarter" then you fundamentally do not understand the problem.

That's part of the problem. It's complicated, but it's not that complicated that people can't learn about it, but they don't. They just buy into the hype.

The concerns are so numerous and, no, we do not have to just lay back and take it.
April 15, 2024: The Day the Internet Died
I'll just post some stuff I find.

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.adw3900

Interesting review of a book, The AI Con , I might have to get a copy.

https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2025/04/03/how-the-us-public-and-ai-experts-view-artificial-intelligence/

interesting research. not what i'd expect to be honest.
April 15, 2024: The Day the Internet Died
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Asherlee10 posted...
There are a lot of AI "haters" on CE. I'm guessing it's from people that don't really understand how to use the models available to the public and/or don't understand the state of AI today and it generates fear and dismissive feelings.
Or they think it's absolute shit. I'm one of those folks.
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darkbuster posted...
Yeah, I think we all just need to accept that AI has a lot of powerful potential, accept that it's mostly a "genie out of the bottle" scenario at this point, & start deciding how we're going to live with it.

That's how you have to deal with all new technology. Nuclear weapons didn't go away. They're the greatest threat humanity ever faced and we learned how to live with them. AI is going to be the same thing. It would be even harder to ban AI than it would nuclear weapons and I don't think anyone living in reality thinks nuclear weapons will be banned.
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It's also just regular climate denial.

The sort of growth AI fetishists are predicting is incompatible with a habitable world. But luckily the companies pushing this stuff will run out of money before achieving the breakthroughs they've promised.
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Asherlee10 posted...
It depends on which model you're using and how you are trying to use it.

So, I would want to know which model(s) you are using and in what ways you've tried it.
It doesn't matter which one you used. It all looks artificial and void of any substance.
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Wouldn't this scenario be more along the lines of AI worship instead of AI denial?
I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
Asherlee10 posted...
There are a lot of AI "haters" on CE. I'm guessing it's from people that don't really understand how to use the models available to the public and/or don't understand the state of AI today and it generates fear and dismissive feelings.
Well, in my case, it's a combination of several reasons why I'm rather opposed to AI.

  • It's generally overblown and not the solution for everything
  • Massive power consumption
  • Leads to even more dependancy on tech companies, which I consider a bad thing
  • AI art leads to copyright issues. On a personal note, AI art contradicts everything what art in its core means to me.
  • The effects of using AI for everything is that it makes people dumber and less capable of solving problems on their own.
  • The content of what AI shows to the audience can be controlled & tweaked by persons, organizations or even countries. It can be misused to spread false narratives and propaganda.
  • Is AI really necessary? Does it really deserve to be "the thing"? Does it really make the life of people in their private life or at work better in the long run?
Just a couple of thoughts.

I for one decided to exclude AI out of my life as much as possible.
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gu-gohan posted...
Well, in my case, it's a combination of several reasons why I'm rather opposed to AI.

I for one decided to exclude AI out of my life as much as possible.
I think it's kind of telling that you didn't come up with the actual reason you're not using it which is you don't have a reason to use it.
I will rule the world, and find that truly good cup of coffee.
Amakusa posted...
I think it's kind of telling that you didn't come up with the actual reason you're not using it which is you don't have a reason to use it.
True. I really don't have an actual reason to use it. Everything I want in life, everything that truely matters to me, is achievable without the use of AI. This is why, for me, it is not "the killer feature" that organizations want to make it out to be.

It may sound conservative - and maybe it is - but over the years I thought hard about what life really matters to me and what really is important in life to me. As someone who's living in a rich country and who's privilegued compared to the rest of the world, I came to the conclusion that "less is more". I don't need trendy tech sold by tech companies to be happy in life. I don't need hundreds of new clothes made from poor kids and women in Bangladesh every year to feel like a cool fashion dude. Less is more. I wished politics and companies would do more for everyday people in real life, instead of selling products like AI that have not that much of a benefit for most people but costs billions in the long run.
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gu-gohan posted...
It may sound conservative - and maybe it is
It isn't. AI slop, as it currently is, is purely a conservative mechanism. Hence why right-wingers are its biggest defenders.
"A shouted order to do something of dubious morality with an unpredictable outcome? Thweeet! "
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BakonBitz posted...
There's a rising epidemic of people wanting results without putting in the work so that's why they think AI is so god-like.
It was always like this though.

I don't think is AI denial but simply AI acceptance. You can't beat technological advance of mass production. The same way lots of workers lost their jobs to mass-producing machines, so will whoever is the next target of AI.

I think the only reliable way to not crash the future economy with the mass unemployment will be UBI.
Some things are beautiful because they cannot be obtained. ~~ Gilgamesh
I think it's one of those things that almost everyone genuinely fears (in regards to job security), regardless of social class,. From fast food, to assembly line work, to white collar jobs, to doctors.

The main people who are praising it are CEOs and oligarchs, and they proudly brag they can replace entry and some experienced workers.

It's gonna be weird seeing how it shifts jobs. Businesses want people to buy their products. They always do. They also wanted a higher population to meet working their production demands, but with a.i.. huh things will be interesting.
Less is more. Everything you want, isn't everything you need.
Asherlee10 posted...
There are a lot of AI "haters" on CE. I'm guessing it's from people that don't really understand how to use the models available to the public and/or don't understand the state of AI today and it generates fear and dismissive feelings.
With all the dumb ai shitposts we get in here, I seriously doubt it, users love to eat that shit up
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Asherlee10 posted...
There are a lot of AI "haters" on CE. I'm guessing it's from people that don't really understand how to use the models available to the public and/or don't understand the state of AI today and it generates fear and dismissive feelings.
IDK man
I've seen Dollhouse and Black Mirror :/
And people like Musk are experimenting with brain implants which is freaky af
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I think there are two distinct brands of AI hater and you don't want to group them together

Group 1 is the "AI is useless, it will never go anywhere, why does anyone bother, lol" type of people. These people are, to put it bluntly, stupid. the world is going to be turned upside-down and they are willfully not going to see it coming

Group 2 is the "AI has potential to be dangerous, AI will upend social and culture structures before we can prepare, maybe we should chill on it a little" type of people. they have a pretty good point and I think the main question here is just how far does wanting to slow down AI go? because I am of the impression that doing anything remotely significant would take rather extreme measures
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For the majority of people, it's just "the new thing". Advocates like the shiny new toy because it's new and shiny, while detractors hate it because it's the new disruptive thing, the same way people hated smartphones because "I just need to call and text, why would I want all this other stuff?!" right up until they actually used one. This isn't to say that there aren't actual pros and cons, only that the lion's share of people don't actually have any understanding of them.

In my experience, it's a genuinely useful tool when there's an objective answer to whatever problem you're giving to it. If you ask "How can I do <task> in Excel" then it'll usually give you a useful answer. If you ask it to recognise patterns in large sets of data, it's great. Where it fails is in more subjective pursuits. The reason AI art sucks is because it simply doesn't understand art. It can put together elements in its dataset, but it doesn't know when or why they should be put together. There's no intelligence, just pattern recognition.
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kirbymuncher posted...
I think there are two distinct brands of AI hater and you don't want to group them together

Group 1 is the "AI is useless, it will never go anywhere, why does anyone bother, lol" type of people. These people are, to put it bluntly, stupid. the world is going to be turned upside-down and they are willfully not going to see it coming

Group 2 is the "AI has potential to be dangerous, AI will upend social and culture structures before we can prepare, maybe we should chill on it a little" type of people. they have a pretty good point and I think the main question here is just how far does wanting to slow down AI go? because I am of the impression that doing anything remotely significant would take rather extreme measures
I dont doubt that AI has its uses, and maybe this is just me being unable to envision it but I cant at this stage agree with the people saying stuff like oh its going to completely change the IT industry, we wont even need coders anymore etc. Ive used it myself, with stuff like GitHub copilot, chatgpt canvas etc, while these are good enough tools today that I use them at my job, Ive seen plenty of cases where it just generates code using fake modules and commands which dont exist, even hackers have caught onto this are are creating malicious modules using names that are commonly invented by AI, so people copy AI code and get their PC compromised etc. unless Im misunderstanding, I dont see how this is an easily solvable problem due to how LLMs output based on prediction. And even if that problem was somehow solved, companies are going to want to hire IT people to actually do that since the middle manager or secretary isnt going to understand what to copy paste where or what to do if it doesnt work and the AI hits a roadblock. Not saying AI isnt incredibly helpful as is but I dont agree (at this stage) with claims that its going to make redundant entire IT depts etc
Rika_Furude posted...
Not saying AI isnt incredibly helpful as is but I dont agree (at this stage) with claims that its going to make redundant entire IT depts etc
there are definitely some pretty wild predictions flying around but even if you don't try to look into the future, it's probably good enough as-is to unemploy like 1/3 - 1/2 of the industry once people get a bit better at using it. other industries (especially writing related ones - translation, proofreading, news) are going to take it even worse. there is a ton of space between the extremes of completely useless and able to do literally everything

that said, I dunno if you replied to that feeling sort of defensive or if I'm just reading too much into it but despite being a bit skeptical of the competence of AI that is definitely not a Group1 post lol
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kirbymuncher posted...
there are definitely some pretty wild predictions flying around but even if you don't try to look into the future, it's probably good enough as-is to unemploy like 1/3 - 1/2 of the industry once people get a bit better at using it. other industries (especially writing related ones - translation, proofreading, news) are going to take it even worse. there is a ton of space between the extremes of completely useless and able to do literally everything

that said, I dunno if you replied to that feeling sort of defensive or if I'm just reading too much into it but despite being a bit skeptical of the competence of AI that is definitely not a Group1 post lol
Yeah I didn't mean to come across as defensive, I was probably a bit too wordy but when it comes down to it, I do believe AI is a valuable tool etc, but I'm still a bit skeptical of all the claims of the complete upheaval of many career paths etc. I definitely agree that many jobs will be made redundant though and it will bring about big changes in a lot of ways. It's just that some claims I've heard just seem too outlandish for me.
I think there is very solid use cases for AI. Like repetitive tasks and shit.

Using AI to replace artists is a bad idea.
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Asherlee10 posted...
There are a lot of AI "haters" on CE. I'm guessing it's from people that don't really understand how to use the models available to the public and/or don't understand the state of AI today and it generates fear and dismissive feelings.
I just don't find it helpful, personally. Aside from the most basic of tasks it needs an impressive level of babysitting. But I'm the kind of person that expects my tasks to be done correctly the first time, having to go back and verify is just a layer of work I don't need.
I don't think it's a useful tool. It's the same thing with some people: you can't conceive that someone could *gasp* not need/want an ai assistant.

Like, using it to make a coding table or spellcheck is trivial. We're talking about using it to actually think and make decision and never developing critical thinking skills as a result.

What problem, exactly, is AI supposed to solve? Some science fiction bullshit? We have scientists already; society is in the process of massively defunding them and also demonizing them.

So please, tell me how this is going to be useful?

Tell me how it's going to transform society when people can't even read and don't have the patience to finish a book if they could.
April 15, 2024: The Day the Internet Died
a good read from Rolling Stone:

https://tinyurl.com/3k5t9stw
April 15, 2024: The Day the Internet Died
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AI is the future and the bias for what about the artists of the world is a sad reality that the world is evolving past that.
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Robot2600 posted...
I don't think it's a useful tool. It's the same thing with some people: you can't conceive that someone could *gasp* not need/want an ai assistant.
Tell me how it's going to transform society

there are people in this topic literally saying they have gotten use out of it <_< I get the feeling you are far too anti-AI to and will deny any of the beneficial uses of it so instead I have collected some negativity for you. Remember, "transform society" does not necessarily mean in a positive way

It's significantly better at propaganda than humans:
https://regmedia.co.uk/2025/04/29/supplied_can_ai_change_your_view.pdf
In this evolving landscape, researchers have increasingly focused on understanding LLMs persuasive capabilities, i.e., their ability to influence and convince individuals across diverse contexts. Early studies on AI-driven persuasion have shown that LLMs can match human performance [59] or even surpass it [1012], including when dealing with highly divisive sociopolitical issues.
Notably, all our treatments surpass human performance substantially, achieving persuasive rates between three and six times higher than the human baseline. I
Remarkably, Personalization ranks in the 99th percentile among all users and the 98th percentile among experts

It's near-indetectable in education and will likely force serious reconstruction of how that works, or all university degrees become worthless:
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/openai-chatgpt-ai-cheating-education-college-students-school.html
Although Columbias policy on AI is similar to that of many other universities students are prohibited from using it unless their professor explicitly permits them to do so, either on a class-by-class or case-by-case basis Lee said he doesnt know a single student at the school who isnt using AI to cheat.

After spending the better part of the past two years grading AI-generated papers, Troy Jollimore, a poet, philosopher, and Cal State Chico ethics professor, has concerns. Massive numbers of students are going to emerge from university with degrees, and into the workforce, who are essentially illiterate, he said. Both in the literal sense and in the sense of being historically illiterate and having no knowledge of their own culture, much less anyone elses.
Most of the writing professors I spoke to told me that its abundantly clear when their students use AI.... Still, while professors may think they are good at detecting AI-generated writing, studies have found theyre actually not. One, published in June 2024, used fake student profiles to slip 100 percent AI-generated work into professors grading piles at a U.K. university. The professors failed to flag 97 percent.

People are spending a surprising amount of time just talking to AI chatbots: (note, this is as of over a year ago. it's almost certainly more now, and this is also just one site)
https://blog.character.ai/character-ai/
In the 5 months since we launched Character.AI, our users have sent over 2 billion messages! Our growth is accelerating the second billion entirely came in the last month. Active users spend on average over 2 hours daily interacting with our AI.

Building for AI-first is starting to change the very structure of the internet:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/ai-has-upended-the-search-game-marketers-are-scrambling-to-catch-up-84264b34
The bots are designed to absorb and process information as quickly as possible, which is why they prefer faster-loading sites that have been optimized for machines rather than human readers, according to Mamedov. Websites in general will evolve to serve primarily as data sources for bots that feed LLMs, rather than destinations for consumers, she said.

https://www.searchstax.com/blog/ai-slop-and-information-discovery/
In early October 2024, a series of powerful hurricanes hit the southeastern U.S., leaving behind destruction and a surge in online activity. People turned to the web in droves to get real-time updates about weather conditions, shelter locations and relief efforts. However, rather than being met with clear and helpful information, many found themselves wading through a sea of AI-generated junk articles, hastily assembled social media posts and low-quality images that added to the confusion....
It has infiltrated nearly every corner of the web. Whether youre looking for product reviews, researching a topic for school or trying to follow the latest news, chances are youve encountered AI-generated content that offers little to no value. Social media platforms like Instagram and TikTok are also seeing a surge in AI-generated visuals, from fake celebrity endorsements to poorly crafted infographics that spread misinformation or sell low-quality products.

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I think vague and airy arguments about 'the human soul' in art are largely post-Romantic bullshit. What is that exactly? There's good art and bad art. Will AI ever be able to make good art? That's another issue.

I'm not fundamentally opposed to the use of AI to produce results quicker and with less effort than humans, as long as the results are good. There's no virtue in effort for effort's sake. Be lazy, go do something you enjoy.

There will always be a market for the work of the most skilled humans. Those in the middle will suffer.

I worry that so much AI content is being produced that AI will only be learning from itself in a short while. Errors will be magnified, and substandard results will become norms.

The environmental concerns are real.

So, I'd consider myself ambivalent/undecided on the topic.

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i think using it in screening and radiology, using it to find petroglyphs in peru, analyze chess, etc is fundamentally different than pretending a chatbot is god

these are all machine-based tasks as it is. those are narrow-domain uses that are speciffically trained by researchers to be able to do those things

however, you aren't going to have enough people smart enough to build such systems if you don't keep education as an institution and LLMs are designed to erode people's faith in independent critical thinking. if the new wave of students just cheat through college they won't be able to leverage ai to create breakthroughs in the future.

you might want the ai to identify if you have cancer, but i don't think you want it making the decision on whether or not you receive care and/or live and die. to be blunt, you need humanities majors to make those kinds of decisions, not just business people.

or you know what maybe im wrong and elon musk, peter thiel, sam altman, and the zuck were right all along.
April 15, 2024: The Day the Internet Died
I work in an ER so I would hope we dont start trying to use AI more at work >_>
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Why is robophobia acceptable? Checkmate liberals
How quaint.
Asherlee10 posted...
In the current state of AI it really depends on what you are trying to get it to do. I would want to know more about the tasks you are trying to get it to do.
I know what AI is good for, and not--using a tool without knowing it's purpose is fools work after all. My problem is expectation: When I use a tool it should be able to do its job as described, perfectly. AI has yet to meet that standard. It's more or less a personal issue. For my personal life it's just another layer of things I need to verify. For my professional life, AI is simply just... Not useful for it as it stands, and what it offers is a barely discernible difference in the standard tools available(I do home renovation, plumbing, electrical work, etc) at a higher cost, usually.

I live a life where AI is largely useless to me, is all.
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Asherlee10 posted...
I'm not sure what you mean. Are you only using it generate images?

Not just that.

Why try and bring up various results for a supposed search results when a basic search engine can do that for me?
Why should I trust its effectiveness when news reports come up showing inconsistent and necessary to go back and fix its mistakes? If that's the case, then just go back to what works in this situation?

It is not intelligence. It just a method to regurgitate information in a way that is no different than throwing darts at a board.
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