So the only strength villains have to lose in a giant crossover film and can't lose in a singular movie? Is Magento weak know too because he loses in X1?Magneto has never been portrayed as a universal or multiversal threat and you inserting him into this to make that argument is plain ridiculous.
She didn't have to die, she chose to sacrifice herself.Yes she did? The movie wrote her to die, so she did. The point isn't who's hand it is. The point is why did she have to sacrifice herself? What happened to her where she ended on the path of needing to die? Why did the movie happen?
And she was driven to ruthlesness by the magic book she was using in a quest to find her multiverse kids.What magic book? What multiverse kids? You have intentionally ignored your argument about not needing to see the TV shows for any context when the context is explicitly and exclusively in the TV show.
The best part of this? I didnt even see Dr. Strange 2. Many ppl did tho and it made nearly a billion dollars. Do you think eveyeone there had watched wandavision?
It took an entire team of X-Men
*this* Kang was. Its been explained to you what kangs MO is, and how is threat functions and has always functioned so you cant even care ignorance at this point. I dont have to explain to you why the clones struggled against the battle druids. Its not because the battle droids were just that powerful.
Every movies box office numbers have been declining the mcus box office numbers have been declining less.
Yes, you can cite marvels, the one movie 17 years in that was released just after a Hollywood strike as a tru blue flop. Congrats, the mcu is well and truly toast now!
Marvel had a comic book do like 400k copies last year lmao. It was 5 bucks per copy. That was one issue, our of rhe hundreds they released. They'll be alright without your input.Oh, this is absurdity. Marvel's market share with comics has declined enormously, ditto DC. The comic industry as a whole is thriving and powerful because of manga and graphic novels, but Marvel and DC cannot capture that audience. The most popular superhero comic on the planet is My Hero Academia. The most popular comic of 2024, btw, was Absolute Batman 1 which sold about 200K copies. The Batman movies have grossed many, MANY times that, and one volume of MHA sold over a million copies.
Why would I argue the big villain of a trilogy dies at the end of the trilogy?
They have taken major financial hits, they've spent a ton only to see diminishing returns, this is not working as well as you claim!
You'd argue him being soloed because he didn't get soloed. You guys know that term doesn't just mean "dies to someone" right?
I don't want the MCU to die. I want it to stop being a bad influence on cinema and to be good. Not much to ask, tbqh.
Hey who knows, maybe you'll finally get your wish and see the MCU die in 5 years or so. We all are going to go see doomsday, so that ain't gonna be it.
1 movie out of like 35 have flopped, just a matter of time now!
Magneto has never been portrayed as a universal or multiversal threat and you inserting him into this to make that argument is plain ridiculous.
Yes she did? The movie wrote her to die, so she did. The point isn't who's hand it is. The point is why did she have to sacrifice herself? What happened to her where she ended on the path of needing to die? Why did the movie happen?
What magic book? What multiverse kids? .
What does how many views it has have to do with why the premise of the plot exist?
This is stupid and you arguing is just for the sake of arguing at this point. I'm also surprised you'd admit to not watching the movie
And it took 10x that amount of trained soldiers with powers and advanced technology, AND 4 actual costumes superheroes and a supergenius to beat Kang.
It took an entire team of X-Men to defeat Magneto. Certainly not Ant-Man and a bunch of antsUMMM ACTUALLY, IT WASN'T A BUNCH OF ANTS, IT WAS A BUNCH OF ANTS WHO DEVELOPED HYPERINTELLIGENCE WHICH MAKES IT COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.
No, I don't think that the lord of darkness
I don't want the MCU to die. I want it to stop being a bad influence
You realize a number of other films before that were financial disappointments without being 'flops,' right?
lmao, spine of wet linguiniThanks, I might steal this term.
Bruh....you are talking about an X-Men team with at least two Omega-level mutants on it with Storm and Jean. Storm alone would take out that entire army in Ant-Man 3 lol
Can you stop pretending you know what the armies in ant man 3 are capable of when you didn't even know they had powers?
I can't believe we really have to argue Kang losing
Youre dodging. I never even said Palpatine was weak. I said he didn't get soloed. It took an army and a war to take down what he built.
Same as Kang.
What bad influence? No one else isn't replicating their success, so clesrly they are doing something wrong and the MCU us doing something right. We'll see how DCs attempt goes.
If you think we aren't getting great indie works in this era you just aren't looking hard enough for it. The MCU was never stopping that.Nah, it just hindered it.
Of course. Thats why I know that marvels doesnr spell the end of rhe mcu any more than their second movie being a disappointment does.
So what powers are they and how do they compare to an entire Avengers team?
I'm ok with them moving forward with Kang but why not just fucking recast? I don't understand why they feel like they need him. Just use Colman Domingo or something.They made the brilliant move to have the individual who has a bazillion different variants have them all played by the same actor.
Watch the movie and find out!
They made the brilliant move to have the individual who has a bazillion different variants have them all played by the same actor.
They made the brilliant move to have the individual who has a bazillion different variants have them all played by the same actor.Eh, at this point I'm not sure the viewers would mind the recast.
Why are you not realizing Palpatine literally dies at the end of a trilogy, while Kang is outfought in what's meant to be the end of an overarching saga?
Why is "everything Kang built" being "taken down" in a single movie when he's meant to be Marvel's new big-ass threat?
Probably the parts of "everyone wants a cinematic universe and churn out shitty films with bloated budgets" that suck up oxygen from tons of others? That they promote shitty, cookie cutter films that take no risks
Nah, it just hindered it.
Doctor Strange 2 has a "disappointing" run at the office. Ant Man 3 did so poorly it ended hopes for Ant Man 4. Marvels bombed. Multiple shows flopped. You think Marvel is HAPPY with these performances?
Nope I want your answer
Palpatine does absolutely nothing threat wise in ESB two movies and doesnt even appear in ANH, soooo I mean that kinda was his first real showcase lmao. Be so for real right now dude.
Because his threat is that there ar emany of him, and one takes a small team of very powerful superheroes and an army of thousands to beat.The entirety of Ant Man is kept from keeping him, personally him, escaping because he will destroy the multiverse himself.
Imagine if there were infinite Palpatines. Thats Kangs whole thing.See above.
Mcu does take risks, and thats why they've succeeded. That they started a trend that others followed poorly isn't an argument against the MCU. Star wars did the same thing in the 80s with many copy attempts and cheap sci fi projects hyper commercialized eith toys and merch, none of which stood the same test of time.
This is a Hollywood issue not an MCU one. They chase trends. MCU makes them.lmao, this is some fanboy bullshit. MCU films are some of the safest things out there. They have promoted the idea of ballooned, bloated budgets that are nearly impossible to recoup
Again, if you aren't seeing indie works thrive you aren't lookin in the right places.And who said that?
Doctor strange made nearly a billin dollars and exceeded it's predecessor. Only reason it didn't hit a billion was because China banned it.
Ant man 3 was a top 10 grosser of the year which saw even well known franchises fail like the Fast trilogy.
Marvels I've explained already.
Like you said, there's context to everything.
Kang isn't a threat because of his power level. You've been told this. Hes a threat because of his access to the span of time and because of his numbers. This was addressed.Lot of words to ignore the argument you brought up and make new ones that don't exist. You say all this because you're not understanding what you're reading and arguing about, which is ironic when you were whining about people doing that earlier with the movies, and calling it bad faith in response.
No, She didn't *have* to die, she chose to sacrifice herself. Just like Vader didn't *have* to die in ROTJ. He chose to sacrifice himself to atone for his actions. Hint friggin hint..
No movie ever "needs" to happen. Literally what are you even arguing at this point? You guys have gone from "Kang got beat by antzzz " to "why did a movie that did 900 million dollars need to exist?"
All of those are established well and truly within the movie lol. Its shown what the book is capable of, and she's down to recognize kids.
It has to do with the fact that that's a nonsensical question asked in bad faith.
I can admit that because I'm displaying that you can clearly know basic things about the movie without seeing it, and im not arguing falsehoods of the movie under this guide like you are attempting to do with ant man.
Not a single post endgame project as been unwatchable without prior knowledge.Which MoM directly contradicts. She was a hero in Endgame and then suddenly a multiversal murderer in her next showing? How does that make sense without prior knowledge?
And...? He's the overarching threat of a trilogy. I don't need him to be out there, flipping around and blasting the rebels himself. Everything I need to know about how Emperor Palpatine is a threat is when Darth Vader kneels before him and calls him master in ESB.
There weren't like 15 Star Wars films before he appears and then another 23 planned after. It's a trilogy. He's the evil overlord. He dies. The end.
The entirety of Ant Man is kept from keeping him, personally him, escaping because he will destroy the multiverse himself.
See above.
The MCU hasn't taken a risk in a while, and even then most of their films are just safe. Even those that purport to have a message can barely bring themselves to actually commit to it.
Star Wars was also a throwback to old Sci Fi serials of old, heavily influenced by French Science Fiction comics and Jidaigeki films, in defiance of the bleak Science Fiction of the 70s, not really the same thing. The MCU have largely been safe, but ultimately empty, cinema.
lmao, this is some fanboy bullshit.
It wild you cannot see the double standard you're employing here. You treat him as a palpable threat based on an interaction, but a character who does all the same three AND displays clear capability to defeat established heavyweights is weak.. Just because you didn't like the movie?
Wasp said he could be a threat to the multiverse; he is a threat, who can traverse the multiverse. How is this undermined by the film exactly?
Lol the MCU released a cultural landmark of a movie with black panther 5 years before ant man 3. But you're changing goalposts. Having a risk and having a message are two very different things. The MCU does take risks, even now, narrative ones. And many of the projects has a social element too.Black Panther is one of the few bold films of the MCU and still ends in a silly CGI slugfest. It's the safest formula in the world.
Atar wars is a throwback to the comic book adventures of old, which existed themselves in many forms as a defiance against normalcy in the period they thrived. Thats why many who enjoyed them were ostracized.
You can't say this and then try to argue a movie making 900m post pandemic is a "disappointment". How many other movies have done that since You? You can count them on their hands(and at least 3 of them are disney)
I Dont think marvel considers ant man that bad a performance. I think you do, but you also considered dr strange 2 a bad performance so I mean...
Also, please look at the budgets.It bears repeating that there is not justification for the budgets being this big. If you tell me it is a money laundering scheme I would believe it.
Antman 3 wasn't a BO flop, but Disney did report that it massively under-performed/a BO disappointment considering how big of a budget they spent on it and were expecting Infinity War/End Game numbers.
Lot of words to ignore the argument you brought up and make new ones that don't exist.
Why does sacrifice =/= die? She died because the movie was made to make her die. That's the meta reason she died. Anyways, I don't gaf she died, .
The movie exists because of another property
Which MoM directly contradicts. She was a hero in Endgame and then suddenly a multiversal murderer in her next showing? How does that make sense without prior knowledge?
And there are multiple arguments you're making. This is separate from the Antman one.
Go ahead and make up more random arguments that don't have to do with anything because you don't know what you're arguing about so I can ignore it and move on.
Pray tell. was Palpatine intended on being an overrching threat for 6 more films before he lost to a c-tier hero?
Because he's beaten by Ant Man.
Black Panther is one of the few bold films of the MCU and still ends in a silly CGI slugfest. It's the safest formula in the world.
The idea the MCU is "risky" is just hilarious. The films almost uniformly end the same way.
I'm sorry, but what? Star Wars was one of the most mainstream things in the world.
He didn't lose to a c tier hero, and he didn't lose to even just one a tier villain. It took many hands to defeat him.Dude. He's KOed by fucking Ant Man. After a duel with Ant Man. In an Ant Man movie. Just accept it.
As for what plans for him were, Lucas claims he planned 6, then 9, or even 12 depending when you ask him. Idk.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/0/01071c73.jpg
Ant man, dozens of war ships, thousands of soldiers, and ant man never even beats him. Its Wasp who delivers the final blow before he nearly kills ant man.
The movie in a fictional wakandan nation with two characters wearing supersuits make out of a fictional material has cgi, yes. Engame also ends in a cgi slugfest. And its cool af.
If you're trying to argue that because the bad guy loses at the end of superhero movies that makes them all the same then this conversation has nowhere left to go because you've reached rock bottom in terms of an argument. I've never known you to make unsound arguments on far more important topics but this is wild lol."The Bad Guy Loses" is expected. "The Big overarching Threat Loses In a C Tier Hero" film is another matter. Maybe Marvel was pretty smart not to have Thanos's first major film ending with him being defeated in a dance off by Peter Quill and then shot by Rocket Raccoon after his forces were driven back by Nova Corps
Therein lies a big problem with these; films can profit, but not enough to offset what was spent on them. Disney paid billions for Star Wars and they 100 percent did not get the return on their investment they wanted
Dude. He's KOed by fucking Ant Man. After a duel with Ant Man. In an Ant Man movie. Just accept it.
I'm sure. And nothing indicates Palpatine would've returned in his original idea for them. Palpatine stayed dead except for like an EU comic for 27 years
Scott is literally the one to finish him there.
Also, "Kang took a fatal blow from a side character in the Ant Man film" isn't better.
Uh, whatever you say I guess.
"The Bad Guy Loses" is expected. "The Big overarching Threat Loses In a C Tier Hero" film is another matter.
1. I was talking about Palpatine.
2. Dude be real. Kang was kicking Ant mans ass in the final fight of the movie and wasp jumps in and knocks him into the pym particles which kills him.
And hes still treated as a palpable threat. Because being killed in your first major appearance doesn't make you not one.Being killed by Ant Man does.
This is such a silly semantically argument that is beneath us both. Kang was *clearly * beating ant mans ass in that fight and you know it, I know it.Cool, hve him keep doing that and leave. He' be preserved as a threat.
Ant man isnt a c tier hero. Hes a more profitable hero than wonder woman and superman these days.
And yes, those statements are the same in this context. The bad guy lost to the hero in the heroes movie. That doesnf make him weak. Ant man is not weak, and casual fans don't think ant man is weak until they have to make this hackneyed Kang argument work. Any other time ant man is treated like a potential threat to Thanos himself.
It doesn't track.
To 500In fairness, this is keeping those two out of other topics, it's basically a weird quarantine.
Cool story, still lost to Ant Man
Being killed by Ant Man does.
Palpatine isn't beaten by Jar Jar Binks here. When he's dead (and to be clear, he's killed in a thematically appropriate way), he had the decency to stay dead and the trilogy ended.
Cool, hve him keep doing that and leave. He' be preserved as a threat.
You've lost the plot
"The bad guy lost to the shittest of all heroes before hes meant to go on as a major threat" Before that, Ant Man struggled against a girl who didn't want to be a villain and a dude nobody remembers. Great pedigree
In fairness, this is keeping those two out of other topics, it's basically a weird quarantine.
In fairness, this is keeping those two out of other topics, it's basically a weird quarantine.I don't mind it. I kinda respect Toonstrack for being this zealous at defending the things he likes.