New York becomes first US city with congestion charge

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjr2wn3zvqvo

My state fucked up (NJ). There was a compromise where they would share the congestion tax with us so we could use it to expand our own transportation systems into the city but we fucked around. Now they get all the money and we get nothing

This state can be a real joke sometimes

Now can we please fix public transportation?

God bless

DuuuDe14 posted...

Now can we please fix public transportation?

Lmao. America just chose the antithesis of any positive change in this country.

Try again in 2-4 years.

All the guys I knew in the Navy from New York City didn't even have a license and never drove growing up. They all used the available and robust public transportation.

I don't like big cities but I do envy the people who can just use public transportation and not need to rely on a personal vehicle. Rare for most of us in the United States. Europe has a massive advantage in that area for sure.

Denver once upon a time had terrible congestion. Then they passed a clean act (forgot the details), and it's greatly improved ever since.

The public transit in NYC is pretty good but still not as good as Asia's. Safety is also a serious concern. If you're going to use congestion pricing as a means to get people to take the subway more, then the subway needs to be much safer and run a lot more efficiently. This is really problematic when you realize there are still many parts of NYC that are essentially transit deserts and are served by no mass transit at all, or if they are, it's really shitty mass transit that takes 1.5 hours to go to your destination when driving could get you there in 15 minutes.

mybbqrules posted...

Try again in 2-4 years.

An optimist, I see.

SSj4Wingzero posted...

The public transit in NYC is pretty good but still not as good as Asia's. Safety is also a serious concern. If you're going to use congestion pricing as a means to get people to take the subway more, then the subway needs to be much safer and run a lot more efficiently. This is really problematic when you realize there are still many parts of NYC that are essentially transit deserts and are served by no mass transit at all, or if they are, it's really shitty mass transit that takes 1.5 hours to go to your destination when driving could get you there in 15 minutes.

Yeah, hopefully the money being raised from this actually goes to improve their public transit system. Encouraging people to use it rather than driving is good but there's no better way of encouraging people to use public transit than to have public transit that's safe, efficient, and reliable.

UnsteadyOwl posted...

Yeah, hopefully the money being raised from this actually goes to improve their public transit system. Encouraging people to use it rather than driving is good but there's no better way of encouraging people to use public transit than to have public transit that's safe, efficient, and reliable.

You would think, but they have to pay for stupid-ass shit such as Governor Hochul's hotline for CEOs who feel threatened and want extra protection

The opposition to this is full of very silly people
https://bsky.app/profile/2avesag.as/post/3lezq6af2dk23

Mother
Fucking
finally

mybbqrules posted...

Lmao. America just chose the antithesis of any positive change in this country.

Try again in 2-4 years.

Pretty much this unless you live in a blue state that has Democratic majorities in their state legislatures.

Pitbuller_26 posted...

Pretty much this unless you live in a blue state that has Democratic majorities in their state legislatures.

Not true. Blue states with democratic majorities are still pretty shitty. CA and NY are some of the most unaffordable places in the world, and they've got nobody to blame but Democrats.

Brykner posted...

The subways and buses in NYC is dogshit. I literally got a car so I could stop using it. Theres always homeless, the mentally ill, panhandlers, people blasting their phones, dudes open mouth coughing, and all the while youre probably standing.

The people on the subways and buses really do suck. The congestion pricing is for the MTA to make more money because they're not doing a good enough job collecting fares from pieces of shit who jump the turnstiles or just hop on a bus without paying. Every time I get on a subway with some piece of shit who jumps the turnstile and then proceeds to blast his music so loud that the entire subway car can hear it, I think...you know what, Thanos really had a point.

Brykner posted...

while driving is like actually being able to eat delicious stuff for nourishment instead.

The famously delicious experience of driving in Manhattan

Pitbuller_26 posted...

Pretty much this unless you live in a blue state that has Democratic majorities in their state legislatures.

Nope, even then. There will never, EVER, be a fair election again. Conservatives will forever control this country.

Have you guys seen the chaos on new york subways?

Antifar posted...

The famously delicious experience of driving in Manhattan

It's like being in a Del Taco drive-thru while playing on Competitive.

ShineboxPhil posted...

Have you guys seen the chaos on new york subways?

I take the subway five days a week.

You are statistically more likely to be hurt by a car in NYC than hurt in the subway system.

Brykner posted...

The subway has to physically hurt you for it to be chaotic?

When talking about "chaos" I think it's important not to lose touch with the reality of the situation. Is the point be safe or to feel safe?

shockthemonkey posted...

Encouraging people to take public transportation rather than driving is a good thing

SSj4Wingzero posted...

The public transit in NYC is pretty good but still not as good as Asia's. Safety is also a serious concern. If you're going to use congestion pricing as a means to get people to take the subway more, then the subway needs to be much safer and run a lot more efficiently. This is really problematic when you realize there are still many parts of NYC that are essentially transit deserts and are served by no mass transit at all, or if they are, it's really shitty mass transit that takes 1.5 hours to go to your destination when driving could get you there in 15 minutes.

Between bus and train you can get practically anywhere in NYC except Staten Island and Northern Bronx. The other "deserts" like Long Island are mostly populated by people who wouldn't take mass transit unless forced to anyway.

Shit, Howard Beach? That's one of those areas that's really underserved by the subway. I feel bad for people who live in places like Rockaway and have to take the A train to work in Manhattan. Even worse if they work in Queens!

NYC's public transit is pretty decent but:

-They really do have to start focusing on quality of life in the subway. Invest more money to catch the turnstile jumpers. The people who cause the most trouble in the subway are people who don't pay to use it.
-They really should invest in Queenslink so that people who live in Rockaway can get easier access to the Queens Boulevard area (i.e. the most densely populated part of Queens)
-The Interborough Express needs to be built yesterday

Tyranthraxus posted...

Between bus and train you can get practically anywhere in NYC except Staten Island and Northern Bronx. The other "deserts" like Long Island are mostly populated by people who wouldn't take mass transit unless forced to anyway.

You can get there, but it's not necessarily easy to do so. NYC needs a better cross-borough subway (the IBX is apparently close to breaking ground, but it needed to happen earlier) - every subway line routes through to Manhattan so traveling from Brooklyn to Queens could take you forever. That said, I do think NYC's public transit is very much underrated by those who live here, and overrated by those who don't.

Some numbers
https://www.curbed.com/article/new-york-congestion-pricing-start-date-questions.html

Only 4 percent of outer-borough residents around 128,000 people drive into Manhattan to work, according to a Community Service Society study. Meanwhile, 57 percent use public transit. Only 2 percent of poor outer-borough residents commute to Manhattan by car. Thats 5,000 people in total. Meanwhile, 61 percent of poor outer-borough residents rely on public transit and the rest either drive elsewhere, walk, or bike to their jobs.

The vast majority of people who enter Manhattan on a given day are doing so by means other than car. If your impression is otherwise, it is skewed by the high visibility of all the cars.

SSj4Wingzero posted...

Shit, Howard Beach? That's one of those areas that's really underserved by the subway. I feel bad for people who live in places like Rockaway and have to take the A train to work in Manhattan. Even worse if they work in Queens!

I lived in Howard Beach for 10 years. There's an above ground station right there and you can get there from virtually anywhere by bus, although I lived close enough that I could walk to the train if I wanted.

I will grant that it's not horrible - it just takes a long time. understandably so since there are a lot of people and places to stop at. I just wish every subway ran more like the 7 train.

NYC's biggest problem is that it doesn't have a true loop line. If you go to most cities in Asia they've planned it out so that they have one subway line that's basically a whole loop around the city so that people working in neighboring areas don't have to transit all the way through the city center. The G train kind of serves that purpose - problem is it's really really slow and has few connections. The IBX in theory should have a lot of these connections...but I guess we'll see.

mybbqrules posted...

Lmao. America just chose the antithesis of any positive change in this country.

Try again in 2-4 years.

While the leadership choice will definitely not help with public transit, it would take far more than 2-4 years to actually fix public transit in America regardless of the leadership. You could hand everything over to a joint governing council composed of the Netherlands and Switzerland, and it would still take well over a decade to fully fix it.

America basically bulldozed and rebuilt their cities to prioritize the car over everything else for decades after WW2, and then only made things worse from there with massive sprawling suburbs and horrible zoning laws because it is somehow "unpleasant" or something that a store or restaurant be any closer than half a mile of road to the typical suburban house.

Pretty noticeable impact so far

https://www.congestion-pricing-tracker.com/

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/7/7553c1f4.png

One step towards a good future.

Good public transport is amazing. If youve lived in a city with reliable trains, subways, or other forms of travel, it beats out driving.

Even just riding in a car while someone else drives in NYC is a terrible experience. The subway certainly has its problems, but it's the lifeblood of the city and the best way to get around when feasible. It should be heavily heavily heavily encouraged and subsidized. Maybe even almost a quarter of how much cars have been.

So how do they enforce it? Mass surveillance?

solosnake posted...

So how do they enforce it? Mass surveillance?

Cameras the way other tolls are paid.

solosnake posted...

So how do they enforce it? Mass surveillance?

EZ Pass

Seems like it would make ubers/taxis much more expensive. Tourists would end up paying more as well.

JuanCarlos1 posted...

Seems like it would make ubers/taxis much more expensive. Tourists would end up paying more as well.

Uber lobbied for a subsidy on this, but I need to stress that making these sorts of trips more expensive is the point.

It's a shadow of the original proposal at only a $9 fee so it likely won't change anything. I think driving in the outer boroughs is reasonable, but in Manhattan I don't get why you would ever drive.

SSj4Wingzero posted...

You would think, but they have to pay for stupid-ass shit such as Governor Hochul's hotline for CEOs who feel threatened and want extra protection

You're worried about hotlines, when the city and state just blew $10 billion on migrants the past two years, most of who are not even eligible. And now they're begging for $15 billion because without it, they can't fix the shit that's way more important than blowing billions on random people.

Brykner posted...

The subways and buses in NYC is dogshit. I literally got a car so I could stop using it. Theres always homeless, the mentally ill, panhandlers, people blasting their phones, dudes open mouth coughing, and all the while youre probably standing.

Public transit is like eating bread and water, its enough to keep you alive but not the best in the world; while driving is like actually being able to eat delicious stuff for nourishment instead. Long Island Railroad isnt in this analogy btw, the LIRR is damn good, but most of the time, were stuck on subways and buses.

Which is why this thing has routinely gotten 25% support in most Sienna polls the past few years, while 2/3rds of the city is against it.

The MTA is a blackhole and everybody here knows it. This is a team up between rich people from lower Manhattan, which is one of the highest concentrations of wealth on the entire planet, stupid politicians, and progressive transplants that moved here recently and never interact with people outside their bubble or from the outer boroughs.

Antifar posted...

I take the subway five days a week.

You are statistically more likely to be hurt by a car in NYC than hurt in the subway system.

Lol, you just moved here from the middle of nowhere like last year. Also, which trains and stops?

Tyranthraxus posted...

Between bus and train you can get practically anywhere in NYC except Staten Island and Northern Bronx. The other "deserts" like Long Island are mostly populated by people who wouldn't take mass transit unless forced to anyway.

Long Island is not part of NYC. What are you even talking about? Eastern Queens, eastern Brooklyn, northeastern Bronx, all have horribly slow ass buses or none at all without a lot of walking. That's a large part of the city, especially when you add in SI. Manhattan and western parts that are well connected are a relatively tiny portion of the city.

Antifar posted...

Some numbers
https://www.curbed.com/article/new-york-congestion-pricing-start-date-questions.html

The vast majority of people who enter Manhattan on a given day are doing so by means other than car. If your impression is otherwise, it is skewed by the high visibility of all the cars.

Ahh, yes. People only ever go to Manhattan to work. We're ignoring the 5 bridges/tunnels they've just blocked off, and the damn near spiteful way they've set up things like exiting the Queensboro or Brooklyn in certain ways or being charged for entering the zone for half a street because they've intentionally started the zone from 60th instead of 59th. Or including crossings like Pearl St. Things that affect people even going away from the CBD.

Even London ends their congestion pricing at 6:30 PM (down from 7 PM after people complained), whereas NYC is 24/7 and comes out to almost double the hours. The CBD is basically dead at night outside like 2-3 major areas. You don't need congestion pricing, even if reduced, when shit is empty. It's hard to not see this as anything but a slimy money grab.

Starks posted...

Pretty noticeable impact so far

https://www.congestion-pricing-tracker.com/

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/7/7553c1f4.png

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/f/f8a49692.jpg

This was from about 11:30 PM. Looks to me like some of the richest people in the world now have no traffic, because it's all been diverted to where we were discussing the other day. The part by the GWB/Cross Bronx is all lower income neighborhoods. On a Sunday night, in January, in below freezing temperatures. Shit is supposed to be empty.

Maybe they should do something about people being attacked and murdered while using public transportation first.

Lived in TX my entire life but I went to NYC twice for vacations at airbnbs with friends. No issues with the subways at all lol

This is a very bad idea, they are using cameras and automatically charging people? So they arent even setting up a toll booth, it is going to be abused to exploit people and make some people pay a lot more than others. I do not like any idea where people are automatically charged fees without being notified.

ZaruenKosai posted...

I do not like any idea where people are automatically charged fees without being notified.

There is in fact a lot of notice that has been given about this. The proposal has been in the works for years.