Why do people hate optional QOL features

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Current Events » Why do people hate optional QOL features
Im seeing some VERY mixed opinions to Shin Megami Tensei V: Vengeance having a save anywhere feature, and im just wonderingwhy? Ive seen similar complaints for other games and I just dont understand them

The game does not force you to save ever, but most complaints are like you can save constantly so the game has no tension. Like justdont save constantly?

It seems to be a pretty common argument but i really dont understand why its a bad thing

Hee Ho
Post #2 was unavailable or deleted.
Not having autosave in 2024 is really dumb
Asherlee10 posted...
I don't get it either. If you want to self-impose challenges or have the option to setup a challenge mode, then do that. But not including QoL features limits the amount of gamers who will play it.
Its especially weird in games that have manual save points in addition to the save anywhere feature

like just use the manual save points as you would in any other game and the option to save anywhere literally doesnt change anything
Hee Ho
SMT4 had save anywhere too so whoever is complaining about it is a decade late
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I don't agree with this argument but for the example of Skyrim, the game was built around using fast travel feature so choosing not to use it doesn't make the game better.

Another example is when they introduced Free Run for Tales of the Abyss. Again, the feature is built around using Free Run and choosing not to use it doesn't make the game challenging or more fun.
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Kuuko posted...
SMT4 had save anywhere too so whoever is complaining about it is a decade late
Yeah and base SMTV had an instant teleport to a save point too, so it basically already had it. Strange journey redux also had save anywhere, so as you said, its not even new to the series.

If you read the polygon review for vengeance they are HARSHLY critical over these QOL improvements and many seem to agree with the review.

Hee Ho
I find in general when people are complaining about features like that, it is a sort of gatekeeping the integrity of playing the game.

Basically, the hardcore gamers wanting the game to be less accessible to more casual player.

They feel these features make the game too easy, which saying you beat the game too less of an accomplishment but even casual players can beat the game now.

FTR: not an opinion I agree with, but one I have heard.
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ya like when people complain about exp share in Pokemon. Just turn it off.
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Dark Souls not having a pause button really did a number on people
VeggetaX posted...
I don't agree with this argument but for the example of Skyrim, the game was built around using fast travel feature so choosing not to use it doesn't make the game better.

Another example is when they introduced Free Run for Tales of the Abyss. Again, the feature is built around using Free Run and choosing not to use it doesn't make the game challenging or more fun.
But when it comes to things like saving anywhere killing the tension i dont see how it makes it less fun to just save at the manual save points and keep that tension.

It literally solves their entire problem
Hee Ho
Same reason we don't want an easy mode added to FromSoftware games
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refmon posted...
Same reason we don't want an easy mode added to FromSoftware games
But why wouldnt you want that

it doesnt affect you at all
Hee Ho
Post #14 was unavailable or deleted.
refmon posted...
Same reason we don't want an easy mode added to FromSoftware games
I'm shocked it took twelve posts
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Sometimes when people make arguments like this I throw my arms in the air and conclude they're being obtuse on purpose. Sometimes not having the option to do things in a game is good for us. What's that saying that someone supposedly said. "If they can, gamers will maximize the fun out of a game". Something like that. If the option is utilize something that for whatever reason is considered bad but is beneficial at the moment is there in front of you is there, sometimes we will go for it even if it creates a worse overall experience.

DodogamaRayBrst posted...
Sometimes not having the option to do things in a game is good for us.
Fuck that.
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refmon posted...
Same reason we don't want an easy mode added to FromSoftware games
"I don't want my game to be accessible to others! How will I feel superior to the casuals if they can also play it?"

DodogamaRayBrst posted...
Sometimes not having the option to do things in a game is good for us.
Name one example
DodogamaRayBrst posted...
Sometimes when people make arguments like this I throw my arms in the air and conclude they're being obtuse on purpose. Sometimes not having the option to do things in a game is good for us. What's that saying that someone supposedly said. "If they can, gamers will maximize the fun out of a game". Something like that. If the option is utilize something that for whatever reason is considered bad but is beneficial at the moment is there in front of you is there, sometimes we will go for it even if it creates a worse overall experience.
Youre saying that thinking QOL features arent bad is being obtuse??

If you cant physically prevent yourself from giving yourself a worse experience because you have the option to how is that the games fault? Will you choose easy mode in any game because its there?
Hee Ho
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5PzRebs9blA&pp=ygUlcGhpbCBsZW90YXJkbyBiZWNhdXNlIHRoZXkncmUgc3R1cGlkIA%3D%3D

It's always funny when people complain about QOL features and "OP" things in single player games. If you don't have the self control to not use them, that's on you.
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Dakimakura posted...
ya like when people complain about exp share in Pokemon. Just turn it off.
But the game is built around using exp share.
Don't like it? Don't watch it. It's that simple
Dictator of Nice Guys
Southernfatman posted...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5PzRebs9blA&pp=ygUlcGhpbCBsZW90YXJkbyBiZWNhdXNlIHRoZXkncmUgc3R1cGlkIA%3D%3D

It's always funny when people complain about QOL features and "OP" things in single player games. If you don't have the self control to not use them, that's on you.
Many of the posts im discussing with people on reddit about Vengeance are literally just them saying that they dont have the self control to not save constantly

Its such a strange self own
Hee Ho
Dakimakura posted...
ya like when people complain about exp share in Pokemon. Just turn it off.

You literally can't do this anymore in recent Pokemon games. It's forced on.
They're elitists who think doing everything the "hard way" is somehow more rewarding, and want that belief forced on everyone else.

That said, the exp share complaint in Pokemon is valid. Without it, you were able to power level a specific pokemon without wasting extra time.
--I understand your opinion. I just don't care about it. ~Jedah--
I'm actually not bothered by newer Pokemon games having EXP Share as a built-in thing. All it does is cut down on grinding time or needing to switch in and out during battles.
TMOG posted...
Name one example
That's kind of like proving a negative, but uh, Sekiro would be a worse game if it had weapon options like Dark Souls does.

Bloodborne would be better if Ludwig's holy blade wasn't in the game.

ssb_yunglink2 posted...
If you cant physically prevent yourself from giving yourself a worse experience because you have the option to how is that the games fault? Will you choose easy mode in any game because its there?
Sometimes maybe. Everyone agrees that stores put the candy at the cashier area to prey on the weak wills of customers I assume. Same concept, minus the predatory aspect.

Also QoL doesn't equal good. A lot of the time quality of life is code for dumbing down.
DodogamaRayBrst posted...
Everyone agrees that stores put the candy at the cashier area to prey on the weak wills of customers I assume. Same concept, minus the predatory aspect.
Not particularly, because it's a save button on a menu.
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Is the Thousand-Year Door remake a bad game because they added a fast travel pipe room to cut down on backtracking?

(spoiler isn't a plot spoiler, just a new feature)
DodogamaRayBrst posted...
That's kind of like proving a negative, but uh, Sekiro would be a worse game if it had weapon options like Dark Souls does.

Bloodborne would be better if Ludwig's holy blade wasn't in the game. Or at least if its scaling was massively reduced.

Sometimes maybe. Everyone agrees that stores put the candy at the cashier area to prey on the weak wills of customers I assume. Same concept, minus the predatory aspect.

Also QoL doesn't equal good. A lot of the time quality of life is code for dumbing down.
How would bloodborne be better without the inclusion of a completely optional weapon? Thats just kind of ridiculous.
Hee Ho
I remember having an argument with a guy years ago who said Crysis games were way too easy and boring because you could just turn invisible and walk past everyone. He refused to not do that because "why would you not choose the path of least resistance" or something.
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is OP the guy who complains about Souls games not having easy mode?
It's usually people who like bragging.

The option to do something easier takes away their internet bragging points.

I really can't think of any other reason why anyone should care that devs chose to add a feature in the game that doesnt change the story, that you aren't forced to even utilize, in a single player, non online game.

"The game is too easy with that feature" Then don't use it, problem solved.
I think they want (devs to have) an intended way to play the game. Giving (many) options let's you have your own unique, tailored experience.

Like I was pressed for time due to real life work stuff (was leaving for a month) when I was wrapping up FF7 Rebirth so I had to swap to Easy in the last couple chapters, so I missed out on how hard the final boss fight could be. So in a sense I was 'cheated' out of the experience many players had and the experience the devs tailored for the fight.

Another example is the sheer amount of accessibility options in TLOU2. I turned on the option that let's you essentially ping for nearby items and highlighted them, which took away the attention to detail you'd need to pay when exploring without it on. In a sense, I missed out on an entire aspect of depth i could've gotten from the game. Was the game ruined? No. Did I miss out on what could have been an intended developer experience? Yes.

I just think people who complain about options just want to experience what the devs tailored, not what allows them to approach a game in a myriad of ways. If the devs tediously curate a boss to kick your ass, they want to suffer through it and figure it out. It's essentially people that approach a game as a puzzle to figure out, and giving them options or hints to make it easier defeats the feeling of saying you're one of the few who triumphed over it.
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Link_of_time posted...
is OP the guy who complains about Souls games not having easy mode?
?????

Have literally never made posts or topics about that
Hee Ho
wackyteen posted...
Another example is the sheer amount of accessibility options in TLOU2. I turned on the option that let's you essentially ping for nearby items and highlighted them, which took away the attention to detail you'd need to pay when exploring without it on.
Then turn it off.
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DrizztLink posted...
Then turn it off.

The existence of the options is what would bother people who complain about them though.

I didn't suffer the same 'hardship' they went through so their own experience is cheapened.
The name is wackyteen for a reason. Never doubt.
But even with those improvements, can those casual players defeat the Hydra?
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Maybe those JRPGs villains were on to something about humanity being trash.
I'm in favor of optional QOL improvements as long as the games aren't balanced around that. Like Fire Emblem. Casual mode should be a thing, but they shouldn't design a map or challenges with suicide strats in mind. It should be entirely designed around classic mode, where sacrificing a unit truly means sacrificing that unit, it's a cost to gain those advantages. Casual mode should purely be an easier option, and not change game design or use of development time in the slightest bit.
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wackyteen posted...
The existence of the options is what would bother people who complain about them though.
I'll go hunting for a violin for them, but I'm gonna need help moving the electron microscope around.
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wackyteen posted...
The existence of the options is what would bother people who complain about them though.

I didn't suffer the same 'hardship' they went through so their own experience is cheapened.
thats really dumb if thats their argument though

if someone completing the game because they used easy mode or something makes a person upset thats absolutely on that person
Hee Ho
I've come to learn that the reason why people get upset about options is that they seem to often enough lack self control. They need the game to restrict them because they cannot restrict themselves.

It's a very alien concept to me since I've been doing challenge runs in games by imposing artificial restrictions on myself since the NES/SMS days.
The commercial says that Church isn't for perfect people, I guess that's why I'm an atheist.
Cynrascal posted...
But even with those improvements, can those casual players defeat the Hydra?
Theyll be allowed to save right in front of Hydra now instead of like a 15 second walk before it and that makes some people angry I guess
Hee Ho
people don't have self control and the more people have fun with a game the less they can fantasize about their own supposed superiority
https://youtu.be/8S99iQH2Rvg?si=lYFVHxVW2Zj1Ah0p
I'm honestly glad there's save anywhere. Sometimes I'll get super tired but in the middle of a dungeon nowhere near a save point. This gives me the option to save so I can sleep. Or if I need to go do something around the house or whatever.
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wackyteen posted...
The existence of the options is what would bother people who complain about them though.

I didn't suffer the same 'hardship' they went through so their own experience is cheapened.
Too fucking bad, they'll just have to get over it
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Persona posted...
people don't have self control and the more people have fun with a game the less they can fantasize about their own supposed superiority
the SMT fanbase specifically can be really fucking bad with the superiority complex and elitism

Hee Ho
I think having optional QOL features is a good thing, my only issue with it is that I have difficulty making decisions, so when I start a game and I'm given a ton of settings to chose, I quickly get overwhelmed. Unfortunately I'm not sure of a good way around it. With some games you can at least spread out the decisions, by making settings that you only have to chose when they first come into play (combat related settings only being chosen when you start your first battle, as an example), but even then you can end up with multiple settings becoming relevant at the same time.
Nirvanas_Nox posted...
I'm honestly glad there's save anywhere. Sometimes I'll get super tired but in the middle of a dungeon nowhere near a save point. This gives me the option to save so I can sleep. Or if I need to go do something around the house or whatever.
its a strange complaint for smtV specially because the base game already allowed you to teleport to save points for free at anytime

Hee Ho
ssb_yunglink2 posted...
Im seeing some VERY mixed opinions to Shin Megami Tensei V: Vengeance having a save anywhere feature, and im just wonderingwhy? Ive seen similar complaints for other games and I just dont understand them

The game does not force you to save ever, but most complaints are like you can save constantly so the game has no tension. Like justdont save constantly?

It seems to be a pretty common argument but i really dont understand why its a bad thing


I've played hundreds of hours of Wizardry 7 on pc. And after every single fight I save, because almost any fight can end you. It's still tense.

The notion of not saving anywhere is mostly a console limitation (or choice) as almost any old school CRPG lets you save anywhere, sometimes even in combat.
Ultima, Bards Tale, Wizardry, Might and Magic etc
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DodogamaRayBrst posted...
That's kind of like proving a negative, but uh, Sekiro would be a worse game if it had weapon options like Dark Souls does.

Bloodborne would be better if Ludwig's holy blade wasn't in the game. Or at least if its scaling was massively reduced.
I think they meant an example of an actual choice or QoL feature that was added to a game that actively made the game worse and not a hypothetical change that could possibly make a game worse if said a change was implemented. And I don't think the existence of an entirely optional weapon really makes Bloodborne a worse game or that Bloodborne would be noticeably better without that weapon's inclusion.
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