UK Election Debate

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All 7 parties in attendance. Tories are getting absolutely fucking eviserated. Its 6 on 1 lol.

Main talking point so far is how Sunak fucked off halfway through the d-day memorial yesterday.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-69098963
"People demand freedom of speech as compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." Soren Kierkegaard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks0lTdTPBds

As an American, are the LibDems left of Labour, or are they what we'd call Libertarians? Every country seems to have a different definition, and I swear they all change it every 15 years to be even more confusing.

If they aren't, are any parties left of Labour, or are you guys getting just as Overtoned as we are?
I apologize for nothing!
Cartoon_Quoter posted...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks0lTdTPBds

As an American, are the LibDems left of Labour, or are they what we'd call Libertarians? Every country seems to have a different definition, and I swear they all change it every 15 years to be even more confusing.

If they aren't, are any parties left of Labour, or are you guys getting just as Overtoned as we are?
Liberal Democrats are closer in ideology to the Conservatives than Labour and even went into a coalition with them in 2010. They're a centre ground party that leans slightly to the left.

The only party further to the left than Labour would be the Green Party and they poll around 4%.
Not from the UK, but from this:
https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_the_United_Kingdom

LibDems are supposedly between Labour and Conservatives. Though Labour seems fairly centrist these days. Leaving the Greens on the left I guess. And now they have Reform UK that are even further right than the Conservatives.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_Kingdom_general_election

SNP sound somewhat left. DUP is right. And Sinn Fin doesn't even seem to participate even when elected.
River Song: Well, I was off to this gay gypsy bar mitzvah for the disabled when I thought 'Gosh, the Third Reich's a bit rubbish, I think i'll kill the Fuhrer'
Cartoon_Quoter posted...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks0lTdTPBds

As an American, are the LibDems left of Labour, or are they what we'd call Libertarians? Every country seems to have a different definition, and I swear they all change it every 15 years to be even more confusing.

If they aren't, are any parties left of Labour, or are you guys getting just as Overtoned as we are?

Whole Overton window has shifted to the right. Cuts in services and the blame gets placed on immigrants.

I have to be honest. The Liberal Democrats are so fringe at the moment I honestly dont know anymore. Since a brief stint where they joined a coalition with the Tories (2010) theyve pretty much become persona non grata. Which is a shame because despite one or two specific examples where they had to yield (as in the case in coalitions) they actually got about 2/3rd of their manifesto passed. I dont know what they stand for. I dont know if thats my fault. The medias fault or the Lib Dems fault.

Glad to see someone else sees the issue with the term liberal btw. Seems to mean different things to different people these days and doesnt transcend national borders well.
"People demand freedom of speech as compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." Soren Kierkegaard
I've just (wrongly) assumed the LibDems were left of Labour based on them being orange. That's what I get for going by party colours lol.
Drawings of me by CE:
https://imgur.com/a/rDSRWz8
Cartoon_Quoter posted...
As an American, are the LibDems left of Labour, or are they what we'd call Libertarians?

That's not a straightforward question. They're a mish-mash of old-fashioned liberals, centre-left social democrats, vague centrists who don't believe in anything and neoliberal free market types (the last group are a bit like the US Libertarians but significantly less crazy). As someone else mentioned, they governed in coalition with the Conservatives from 2010 to 2015 (for which they were rewarded with near-annihilation at the next election) - their leader at the time was very much on the neoliberal wing and their current leader was a minister in that government. Overall they're probably now to the left of Labour, but that's largely because of how far to the right Keir Starmer has dragged Labour.

SHRlKE posted...
The Liberal Democrats are so fringe at the moment I honestly dont know anymore. Since a brief stint where they joined a coalition with the Tories (2010) theyve pretty much become persona non grata.

Not for long, probably. Polls suggest they're likely to make big gains in this election, largely due to tactical voting to get the Tories out. In fact some recent polls suggest that the Tories could lose so many seats that the Lib Dems actually overtake them and come second.
Re-open board 261.
Britain doesn't really have a left to speak of, outside of tiny, mostly regional parties. Ever since the 1980s, Labour's core argument has been "we'll do the same things as the Tories, just without the incompetent clowns". That's why the UK never actually recovered from Thatcherism.
"We will end our resilience for bad things." "We have pioneered the fatality rate."
More brilliant insights from Donald Chump
Red_XIV posted...
Britain doesn't really have a left to speak of, outside of tiny, mostly regional parties. Ever since the 1980s, Labour's core argument has been "we'll do the same things as the Tories, just without the incompetent clowns". That's why the UK never actually recovered from Thatcherism.

I think thats a massive over simplification. They werent perfect and there are things I dont agree with but things definitely got better under Labour in the 90s / 2000s. Its only since the Tories took over weve seen increases in NHS wait times, immigration numbers and a decrease in defence numbers. The latter two I find the most ironic as they are meant to be on the right of Labour!
"People demand freedom of speech as compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." Soren Kierkegaard
SHRlKE posted...
Main talking point so far is how Sunak fucked off halfway through the d-day memorial yesterday.
His defence of 'I left intentional things to do BRITISH things' shows he is simply thick as pig shit.

Plus he planned to leave it even before the election was called shows he simply doesnt understand the mind of the racists he hopes to appeal to.
Let's make biscuits!
lol. Sunak has been asked if hes considering resigning before the election things are that bad.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/rishi-sunak-d-day-mel-stride-general-election-b2559375.html
"People demand freedom of speech as compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." Soren Kierkegaard
A video I just watched on their manifesto makes it sound like the Lib Dems have moved to the left as Labour moves a bit more to the right.
River Song: Well, I was off to this gay gypsy bar mitzvah for the disabled when I thought 'Gosh, the Third Reich's a bit rubbish, I think i'll kill the Fuhrer'
Sir_Will posted...
A video I just watched on their manifesto makes it sound like the Lib Dems have moved to the left as Labour moves a bit more to the right.
The problem is that everyone remembers when their manifesto promised to abolish university tuition fees.

Then they went into coalition with the Tories and supported them being trebled.

It still haunts the Lib Dems, and they still haven't shaken the reputation of being untrustworthy.
'Vinyl is the poor man's art collection'.
ai123 posted...
The problem is that everyone remembers when their manifesto promised to abolish university tuition fees.

Then they went into coalition with the Tories and supported them being trebled.

It still haunts the Lib Dems, and they still haven't shaken the reputation of being untrustworthy.

I agree. Problem is there were in a coalition. As a minority member. Compromises have to made. No one take about the fact they managed to push through 60% of their manifesto during the same period.
"People demand freedom of speech as compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." Soren Kierkegaard
SHRlKE posted...
I agree. Problem is there were in a coalition. As a minority member. Compromises have to made. No one take about the fact they managed to push through 60% of their manifesto during the same period.
They didn't have to form a coalition with the fucking Tories. A Lab/Lib/SNP coalition was viable. Or they could have given the electorate another go to sort it out.

The percentage doesn't mean much when they were given fixed term parliaments (since junked by Johnson) and Health Boards, while their key policies got trashed (the gimped PR referendum), and they ended up giving us Cameron and, by extension, Brexit.

I find it really difficult to vote for them, based on that.
'Vinyl is the poor man's art collection'.
SHRlKE posted...
I agree. Problem is there were in a coalition. As a minority member. Compromises have to made. No one take about the fact they managed to push through 60% of their manifesto during the same period.

  1. They didn't have to join a coalition with the Tories.
  2. Having done so, they didn't have to sustain that coalition for five years.
  3. They didn't compromise, they collaborated - there's a big difference. And yes, that included tuition fees: https://www.indy100.com/news/clegg-was-offered-a-pass-on-a-rise-in-tuition-fees-by-osborne-he-rejected-it-7278621
  4. They didn't push through anywhere near 60% of their manifesto.
And yet somehow they're still less awful than what Starmer has turned Labour into.
Re-open board 261.
Thanatos_the_Great posted...
They didn't compromise, they collaborated - there's a big difference. And yes, that included tuition fees: https://www.indy100.com/news/clegg-was-offered-a-pass-on-a-rise-in-tuition-fees-by-osborne-he-rejected-it-7278621
As someone who was affected by the change in tuition fees, what a load of bullshit he pulled here
[teep is] an evil genius who will one day kill us all - Choco
teep is a God damn genius - Zodd
teep_ posted...
As someone who was affected by the change in tuition fees, what a load of bullshit

Are you expressing your disapproval of what Clegg did, or are you saying you don't think what the article says is true?
Re-open board 261.
Thanatos_the_Great posted...
Are you expressing your disapproval of what Clegg did, or are you saying you don't think what the article says is true?
The former, apologies. I've edited my post to hopefully make it more clear
[teep is] an evil genius who will one day kill us all - Choco
teep is a God damn genius - Zodd
Latest polls give good news for the Lib Dems as if they're correct, they would become the official opposition, knocking the Tories into third place.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/3/3e1caa05.jpg
Thanatos_the_Great posted...
1. They didn't have to join a coalition with the Tories.
2. Having done so, they didn't have to sustain that coalition for five years.
3. They didn't compromise, they collaborated - there's a big difference. And yes, that included tuition fees: https://www.indy100.com/news/clegg-was-offered-a-pass-on-a-rise-in-tuition-fees-by-osborne-he-rejected-it-7278621
4. They didn't push through anywhere near 60% of their manifesto.
And yet somehow they're still less awful than what Starmer has turned Labour into.

Thanks for point #3. I wasn't aware of this. Looks like I bought into some bullshit somewhere along the line. I've changed my stance now. Fuck the Lib Dems.
"People demand freedom of speech as compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." Soren Kierkegaard
Trelve posted...
Latest polls give good news for the Lib Dems as if they're correct, they would become the official opposition, knocking the Tories into third place.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/3/3e1caa05.jpg
FPTP is so bloody broken....
River Song: Well, I was off to this gay gypsy bar mitzvah for the disabled when I thought 'Gosh, the Third Reich's a bit rubbish, I think i'll kill the Fuhrer'
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