Your post is claiming Biden is the only guy turning a blind eye to Israel's bullshit, when that's not true at all. Jimmy Carter was probably the last President to tell them to stop.Wait so you deny that Reagan told them to stop?
Wait so you deny that Reagan told them to stop?I mean the First Intifada occurred when Reagan was President. And it happened because Israel kept encroaching on Palestinian land and instigating violence.
Stop giving right wingers ammo to propagandize.
Wait so you deny that Reagan told them to stop?When he came to the presidency, Reagan was seen as influenced by the Israeli narrative of the conflict.
When he came to the presidency, Reagan was seen as influenced by the Israeli narrative of the conflict.That post was about Lebanon. I'm not claiming Reagan or every president was awesome on every piece of Israel's BS. But stuff like Lebanon and
Settlement construction accelerated as the number of Jewish settlers in the West Bank increased by 70 percent over the first two years of Reagan's presidency.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Intifada, Reagan condemned them on this stuff and was willing to withhold weapons from going to Israel.
Okay, but this is a separate argument than whether Trump and Biden follow a consensus of previous presidents on how to handle Israel. It doesn't change any of what I just posted responding to you.
As to the argument in this post, if he was on that razor thin and specific an edge with the voting public, then he would not have gone in direct defiance of Israel's demand to veto the latest UNSC vote for a ceasefire that caused them to make good on their threat to cancel their trip to Washington.
It just sounds like trying hard to believe that the current administration has no choice in the matter of how many arms and how much intel it gives to Israel thanks to a gun to its back held by the American people. But like, get real. The average American doesn't know what an MK84 2,000 pound bomb is and does not have the visibility into the MIC to judge how much the US can be sending to Israel VS how much it is.
especially when the 'criticism' doesn't offer solutions
obviously biden doesn't have to support israel
obviously biden doesn't have to support israel to the degree he does, but people acting like he is committing a genocide are just ignorant of how global politics works or has ever worked.Could you unpack this? I'm not sure what you mean. Like what do you think of South Africa's genocide case against Israel in the international court of justice? No, Biden is not giving orders for genocide, but he is supplying unconditioned military aid to the country credibly accused of it.
we have a binary choice between the guy that supports israel to the same degree every president has for 40 years or the guy that publicly wants to blow up gaza, has fomented an insurrection, and is a consensus bottom 3 president of all time who is promising to be worse the second time around.It is possible to criticize the way Biden is arming Israel and also say you should vote for him over Trump because Trump will make it way worse.
trying to frame bidens foreign policy as especially egregious or outside the norm of all presidents in modern history is purposefully dishonest and reeks of the russian/fat right agenda of spreading apathy.https://time.com/6340511/biden-israel-history/ "Joe Biden Is Turning Out to Be Americas Most Pro-Israel President Ever"
israel committing war crimes in gaza is not dependent on biden and the alternative is orders of magnitude worse. constant cries about biden ring hollow at this point, especially when the 'criticism' doesn't offer solutionsPublic outcry is the solution. That's the power people have outside the ballot box. They've already been moved to adjust their messaging and approach thanks to demonstrations. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/03/18/biden-democrats-protesters-gaza/
Public outcry is the solution. That's the power people have outside the ballot box. They've already been moved to adjust their messaging and approach thanks to demonstrations.
Ok but what is the solution if trump wins and actually makes the situation orders of magnitude worse as he says he will?If the fate of the election actually rests on whether people are out there demonstrating about this then that is a pretty compelling argument for the government to listen to the demonstrations. Nobody wants Joe Biden to win the election more than Joe Biden does. It's not like it's October and there's no room for the government to even pivot before the election. The 2024 primary season isn't even over. Nor is the situation a zero sum game between choosing to support Israel or appeasing the people who think Israel is engaging in atrocities.
This makes it clear, US goal is always an instability on the region. They don't want peace.
You really think the outcome of Israel failing to win its war here is "peace"?
You think ceasing to arm Israel results in everyone in the region holding hands, rather than immediately showing what genocide actually looks like as Israel ceases to exist almost overnight in a bloody massacre?
The absolute comical level of ignorance in stances like this...This isn't a war. It impossible to end terrorism with genocide and apartheid.
You really think the outcome of Israel failing to win its war here is "peace"?
You think ceasing to arm Israel results in everyone in the region holding hands, rather than immediately showing what genocide actually looks like as Israel ceases to exist almost overnight in a bloody massacre?
There is a very good reason that people who know more about the history here than headlines from the short time Israel was on the offensive don't consider disarming Israel when they're looking at ways to lessen the damage to civilians.
Nobody wants Joe Biden to win the election more than Joe Biden
Blaming Biden and democrats isn't going to help people or give them any solace in 2025 when trump takes power.
It's not like it's October and there's no room for the government to even pivot before the election. The 2024 primary season isn't even over. Nor is the situation a zero sum game between choosing to support Israel or appeasing the people who think Israel is engaging in atrocities.
Ok but what is the solution if trump wins and actually makes the situation orders of magnitude worse as he says he will?
Trump will just make things even worse for the Palestinians and won't react the way he should from public pressure to try to reel in Israel.Biden isn't reacting the way he should from public pressure already.
Biden isn't reacting the way he should from public pressure already.He let a resolution through the UN calling for a ceasefire even without holding Hamas responsible from the Jan 7th massacre. He also has been doing outreach to the Muslim community, even if it isn't what we would hope for. Neither would happen under Trump.
Blaming Biden and democrats isn't going to help people or give them any solace in 2025 when trump takes power.
Stop with that horseshit. The thing that's creating a risk of Trump being elected isn't people criticising Biden for arming and funding a genocide, it's Biden arming and funding a genocide.
I just want to know what you guys plan on doing if trump wins. Nobody will tell me.By "you guys" do you mean people angry at Biden for not doing more to stop Israel? The sentiment would shift to Trump.
I hope history remembers Biden poorly for his role in the ethnic cleansing of Gaza.
Ok but what is the solution if trump wins and actually makes the situation orders of magnitude worse as he says he will?
I genuinely don't understand your stance here
I want to know what you guys plan on doing if trump wins the presidency.Just shut the fuck up. Peoples reactions to Biden doing horrible shit on a dying video game website nobody even knows exists will not cause Biden to lose if he does. It will be Bidens horrible actions themselves, so take it up with him.
If you can give me a reasonable answer then I'll gladly join your protesting the vote.
If not then stop gambling with other peoples lives for your worthless virtue signal.
Just tell me what the plan is. Thats all I'm asking.
Just shut the fuck up. Peoples reactions to Biden doing horrible shit on a dying video game website nobody even knows exists will not cause Biden to lose if he does. It will be Bidens horrible actions themselves, so take it up with him.
And calling biden genocide Joe on a video game message board is going to do what exactly?PraetorXyn posted...
will not cause Biden to lose
And calling biden genocide Joe on a video game message board is going to do what exactly?Contribute to discussion, which your incessant whiny concern trolling is trying to derail. Fuck off you sanctimonious ass.
How about you shut the fuck up.
I want to know what you guys plan on doing if trump wins the presidency.Outside of your imaginary strawman, people can and do protest the US's current actions without actively lobbying for people not to vote for Democrats.
If you can give me a reasonable answer then I'll gladly join your protesting the vote.
If not then stop gambling with other peoples lives for your worthless virtue signal.You have to outright ignore reality and pretend the government hasn't responded to pressure already to define people showing out as virtue signaling. You are not engaging with facts, not in terms of the goals of protestors or the effect demonstrations can have and have had.
Outside of your imaginary strawman, people can and do protest the US's current actions
You have to outright ignore reality and pretend the government hasn't responded to pressure already
Contribute to discussion, which your incessant whiny concern trolling is trying to derail. Fuck off you sanctimonious ass.
So the plan is to protest the trump admin?I didnt even say anything besides Democrats are being stupid as if theyre trying to lose on purpose, as expected. I just got tired of rolling my eyes at your crying bitch fit.
I agree, it has. But its obvious biden still hasn't done enough in your eyes so I'm asking what you do as a protest voter if trump wins.
Because I have an odd feeling trump isn't going to be very responsive to your protests.
Ok bud. Please continue to help Gaza with your angry video game message board posts. Very brave.
I agree, it has. But its obvious biden still hasn't done enough in your eyes so I'm asking what you do as a protest voter if trump wins.I'm committed to voting for Biden in the general election.
I'm committed to voting for Biden in the general election.
You have to just pretend the people you're mad at (people upset about genocide) are doing shit they aren't to justify your anger at them being upset about genocide. Go touch grass...
A guy itt I responded to earlier literally is an accelerationist who said that he wished he could donate money to hamasNon sequiturs arent questions.
So no pretending necessary
Still no answer to my very simple question.
Non sequiturs arent questions.Are you entirely sure that term means what you think it means?
Are you entirely sure that term means what you think it means?Yes. Its Latin for does not follow, and his question is the definition of that as it assumes a baseless conclusion he pulled from his ass without a shred of evidence is a fact to even have a reason for asking it.
assumes a baseless conclusion
How, pray tell?
Asking what the plan is in the event of one of two presidential candidates winning is pretty connected to the topic, since it's largely about presidential response.
Whats the baseless conclusion that I assumed?The premise of the question is basically if you criticize Biden at all Trump might win, shame, shame, shame, how would you feel? The implication being that this discussion would be responsible for Biden losing.