Can you think of any media that both condemn and appeal to the same thing?

Kind of awkward question phrasing on my part. I feel like it's hard to explain, so I'll try giving an example.

In the Coffin of Andy and Leyley, incest, or at least the implication of it, is pretty prevalent. Nothing is graphically show on-screen, but there are some undertones (and one overtone). From what I remember from the game, it shows the relationship between the brother and sister to be evidently unhealthy. It's pretty much never commented on positively in-game. Ending of chapter 2 spoilers: There is an ending that seems as if it will lead to incest, but it's an optional one, and it's also branching within the branch. You can have them seem to get closer, without making it go that far. So there is a way for it to be interpreted positively, but the characters are still generally not 'good' .

Besides what's in the spoilers, there's some art that kinda plays it up in a manner that appeals to those who like the idea of it between the two characters. For instance, this was posted a while back:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/3/308f41c7.jpg
I sometimes see people complain about this game as if it unquestionably supports their relationship, but I feel that's a misreading of those who haven't played the game. At the same time, it isn't entirely unfair either, people who seem to like the taboo, seem to like the game, and arts like the above definitely appeal to those people, even if the contents of the game don't quite match.

Hopefully this illustrates my question well enough. I'd honestly rather use a different example, but the other one I could think of was more spoilery.

Most punk music. It appeals to right wingers while condemning pretty much everything they stand for.

Since media literacy has tanked in the younger generation, pretty much any show or movie that portrays a character doing bad things, even when those actions are explicitly sanctioned in the media, is interpreted as support for those actions.

I feel like Starship Troopers is kinda like this, even though it's one of my favorite movies.

@TheOnionKnight this is what you harp on a lot right?

"the military" in movies like Avatar or Starship Troopers.

CheshireSimper posted...

Since media literacy has tanked in the younger generation, pretty much any show or movie that portrays a character doing bad things, even when those actions are explicitly sanctioned in the media, is interpreted as support for those actions.

That's true and I agree with it, but I still think that sometimes a movie or something will have the message of a thing, but then still revel in the thing. Like, oh I dunno I can't think of something specific now, but I know I've seen stuff where the message is violence and gore is bad and we're all desensitized or something, but then the movie itself is super violent and gory, so...it's doing exactly what it's preaching against.

I never saw the movie Cuties, but I think maybe some people said this was the case for it? The point of the movie was young girls are often exploited, but then the movie itself exploits these girl actors by having them do these dances. I dunno. Maybe I'm wrong. I could be don't hate me. :V

Spec Ops: The Line
MGS2 and 4
FFTA
Virtually every game with a morality system

The Punisher and Police

DARE
had a really hard time convincing my entire generation that drugs are actually bad. I'm pretty sure a lot of the anti-weed commercials/talking points actually made it more appealing.

BucketCat posted...

DARE
had a really hard time convincing my entire generation that drugs are actually bad. I'm pretty sure a lot of the anti-weed commercials/talking points actually made it more appealing.

It tried really hard but water is gonna run downhill.

The kids were supposed to be like wow I'm glad I know what that is so if someone offers it to me, I can turn it down. Which is a fair objective. But instead they were like

So that's what it's called.
So that what it does.
So that's where I get it.
Cool, thanks.

spanky1 posted...

@TheOnionKnight this is what you harp on a lot right?

Yeah, I think about it a lot. Something can be well-intentioned but then have the total opposite effect. The Godfather and Apocalypse Now are the two examples that always come to mind for me. Even though these are critical movies, The Godfather wound up leading to real-world glamorization of the mafia, and Apocalypse Now is literally used as a recruitment tool for the military, playing "Ride of the Valkyries" to hype up soldiers and etc.

Feels like it would be easier to list what doesn't do this. So much of it is "this is bad, but the spectacle is pretty cool", which is fine.

Guide posted...

Feels like it would be easier to list what doesn't do this. So much of it is "this is bad, but the spectacle is pretty cool", which is fine.

Maybe thats true. But for something like, I dunno, MGS. Despite people thinking Snake is cool, or Raiden in Revengeance, and having fun gameplay, people also dont doubt that its overall meant to be an antiwar game, or at least I dont feel that many people do.

Maybe because its a relatively simple message, and also not a controversial stance? Then again, I could be overestimating how many people get it.

Conservative media and general Magatry. They condemn hate, but....yknow.

The Hannibal tv series. It has all the gruesome murders and such, yet it also has the jokes and puns about cannibalism. It obviously wants us to root for Hannibal himself in certain parts, despite the awful things that he does, etc. It's a low-key dark comedy.

Like, "Gaslighting, murder, mutilation, and cannibalism are bad, mmmkay? But also kinda hilarious, at least when Hannibal does it." It definitely tries to create a "they had it comin'" narrative about a lot of his victims, perhaps even most of them.

RetuenOfDevsman posted...

It tried really hard but water is gonna run downhill.

The kids were supposed to be like wow I'm glad I know what that is so if someone offers it to me, I can turn it down. Which is a fair objective. But instead they were like

So that's what it's called.
So that what it does.
So that's where I get it.
Cool, thanks.

I distinctly remember a table in one of the D.A.R.E. booklets I got in 6th or 7th grade that listed out a bunch of common drugs and next to them were the short and long term effects. Next to weed, the long term effects area was left blank.

the entire premise of Team America: World Police

DARE is a funny example for people to use. I actually never had to take it, but my sister did, I think she even did some kind of speech or something, but it's been a while, I could be mixing up the details. While she doesn't abuse drugs or anything, she doesn't mind them, whereas I actually don't touch anything harder than ibuprofen if I can help it lol

bover_87 posted...

Most punk music. It appeals to right wingers while condemning pretty much everything they stand for.

It appeals to right wingers because theyre media illiterate. None of them were able to explain to me why Beyond good and evil 2s trailers were an insult to the first game. Imagine being right wing and liking BGE1.

Guide posted...

Feels like it would be easier to list what doesn't do this. So much of it is "this is bad, but the spectacle is pretty cool", which is fine.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DoNotDoThisCoolThing