If a prophet came and performed literal miracles, would you believe in god then?

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Current Events » If a prophet came and performed literal miracles, would you believe in god then?
Post #51 was unavailable or deleted.
i'd wait until they start inevitably trying to sell products before passing judgement
Editor's note: The sound of children screaming has been removed.
No because it's more than likely a time traveler going back showing off their technology
"I dreamt I was a moron."
Zikten posted...
I'd sooner suspect that there is another explanation. Either some kind of trick, advanced technology, or maybe the person has obtained super powers. In Invincible, there is a girl who can manipulate matter and she can make plants grow super fast among other things

Even if it is from a god, I'd not trust the god. My first thought would be that the god is up to some ulterior motive and could be a threat to the world

Make sure not to bleed over the discs.- Xiciassa
NOT IN MY CANTINA! - Bartender
Tyranthraxus posted...
No.

Need more than just my shoddy witness account.

What do you believe you would need to at least deeply and truly consider the possibility?

Robot2600 posted...
that could be any god or demon or alien or w/e. i aint gonna worship anyone for having magic powers.

How would you feel about it then?

Thewinner14 posted...
I already believe in God so it would just be fulfilling Jesus' words at Matthew 24:24 For false messiahs and false prophets will rise up and perform great signs and wonders so as to deceive, if possible, even Gods chosen ones

You do not believe it would be possible for there to be anyone other than a false prophet if they were not Jesus themselves? You do not believe God/Jesus would send a prophet themselves? There are many actual prophets in the Bible besides Jesus

John 4:1-6
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already. Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. They are from the world; therefore they speak from the world, and the world listens to them.

Is there anything akin to this that may make you believe that it was not a false prophet, some test, information, or otherwise that would make you consider that they were not false?
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ragnarokius posted...
It'd certainly help. Modern times are too far divorced from biblical times, the time of miracles, for religion to survive. Something needs to happen to keep things fresh and even somewhat credible. If it's real at all.
^This.
There's a saying "Don't believe your lying eyes"
We have gone way past taking things at face value in 3000 years. I understand people want to believe in a higher power to explain the meaning of it all. Thats the point there is no meaning. You live, You die and somewhere between you try to reproduce. Thats the meaning of everything
I was born when she kissed me. I died when she left me. I lived a few weeks while she loved me-
itachi15243 posted...
What do you believe you would need to at least deeply and truly consider the possibility?

More witnesses and more observations within a controlled environment.

Doesn't matter what miracle you do in front of just me. I'll always err on the side of "I am mistaken about what I witnessed"
It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://i.imgur.com/dQgC4kv.jpg
flussence posted...
i'd wait until they start inevitably trying to sell products before passing judgement

And what if they don't?

In this scenario they aren't here to con anyone, they seldom accept even charity if that, and try to make the world a better place genuinely while preaching the word of god?
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I normally roll my eyes at religious people saying "Atheism requires faith too!" or w/e but some of you seem to actually be exhibiting that.

You should test "this person has supernatural powers" at *some* confidence level. If you think there's < 0.0001% chance that I can read your mind and I correctly pick (the number you are thinking of out of 10) 1000 times in a row, it's not "scientific" for you to say that I don't have that ability just because you can't explain how I'm doing it. At that point you can definitely reject your null hypothesis at that confidence level.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/Anteaterking/scan00021.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/Anteaterking/scan00021.jpg
Tyranthraxus posted...
More witnesses and more observations within a controlled environment.

Doesn't matter what miracle you do in front of just me. I'll always err on the side of "I am mistaken about what I witnessed"

In this scenario there would plenty of documentation and observations from a large number people including specialists in all sorts of fields. If these conditions were filled than what do you believe you might think about it?

Anteaterking posted...
I normally roll my eyes at religious people saying "Atheism requires faith too!" or w/e but some of you seem to actually be exhibiting that.

You should test "this person has supernatural powers" at *some* confidence level. If you think there's < 0.0001% chance that I can read your mind and I correctly pick (the number you are thinking of out of 10) 1000 times in a row, it's not "scientific" for you to say that I don't have that ability just because you can't explain how I'm doing it. At that point you can definitely reject your null hypothesis at that confidence level.

While I can definitely see what you mean, you also have to understand that I'm sure that a lot people wouldn't know what to think at first.

While it seems obvious that some are clouded by their current beliefs a bit much to readily except the concept, a lot of what I'm curious about is honesty why they wouldn't, what would get them to, and how their beliefs might change if it did happen openly and honesty.
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itachi15243 posted...
In this scenario there would plenty of documentation and observations from a large number people including specialists in all sorts of fields. If these conditions were filled than what do you believe you might think about it?

I would concede that this person had the ability to do things not currently explainable by science. That does not mean there is a God.

Here's a video from Christopher Hitchens that explains why doing miraculous things doesn't prove God:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGikGf32FMQ

The tl;dw is that doing a miraculous thing proves you can do a miraculous thing. It does not prove that thing was made possible by God.

It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://i.imgur.com/dQgC4kv.jpg
If that same prophet attributed his powers to Ra, what would it take for you to convert?
Post #63 was unavailable or deleted.
Tyranthraxus posted...
I would concede that this person had the ability to do things not currently explainable by science. That does not mean there is a God.

Here's a video from Christopher Hitchens that explains why doing miraculous things doesn't prove God:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGikGf32FMQ

The tl;dw is that doing a miraculous thing proves you can do a miraculous thing. It does not prove that thing was made possible by God.

Do you think there would be any way generally to make you believe that it was made possible by god?
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itachi15243 posted...
Do you think there would be any way generally to make you believe that it was made possible by god?

God would have to give me the power to do it.

Alternative, God could just force me to believe if he's all powerful.
It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://i.imgur.com/dQgC4kv.jpg
Post #66 was unavailable or deleted.
Tyranthraxus posted...
God would have to give me the power to do it.

So you don't believe that you could believe it was was God without personally being the one that was given the power to perform the miracles in the first place then?

Asherlee10 posted...
What qualities do you ascribe to the god you believe in?

That's kind of a tough question.

It's nearly impossible to completely explain, but I suppose one way to describe God as I see him as being the best possible version of God as known in Christianity and other similar religions, but with a heavy focus on Christianity. Being omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, and as omnibenevolent as possible while still maintaining order in the universe. While at the same time I would describe him as kind hearted, caring, very personable, loving, with a good sense of morality and justice. And while I know these things may seem to contradict eachother such as having a loving personality, caring, and being omnipotent and omnibenevolent they do not in my view of God.

I guess the best way to put it would be all the best versions of all the best voices spoken in the Bible in one and so much more the father, the son, and the holy ghost; yet God is God is God. (If that makes any sense at all)

May I ask why you ask though?:o
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God himself would have to descend and say "Yeah, this person is my prophet, worship me!!!".

And even then I wouldn't believe it.
"I dreamt I was a moron."
itachi15243 posted...
So you don't believe that you could believe it was was God without personally being the one that was given the power to perform the miracles in the first place then?

Like I said, God could also force me to believe it.
It says right here in Matthew 16:4 "Jesus doth not need a giant Mecha."
https://i.imgur.com/dQgC4kv.jpg
I ain't falling for some David Blaine motherfucker turning orange soda into cheezits

Fucker trying to trick me

Fuck him
*runs out of topic naked*
No.

Evidence of God would be clear affirmations of scripture, not random miracles. At best, it's evidence of Jesus, not of scripture and god.
Tiw - Min scild, min sweord
Woden - Se ALLFAEDER he is, naes hwitra manna anra
Post #72 was unavailable or deleted.
Asherlee10 posted...
Can you expand on this a bit more? When you describe this god as omnibenevolent (possessing perfect goodness or maybe all-loving at all times), how would a being that has perfect goodness only do this when "possible while still maintaining order in the universe?" -- What I'm getting at is possessing something like perfect goodness would mean it would apply 100% of the time, not just where possible or as it sees fit.

Sure, I'll explain why I'm asking these sort of questions. There is ultimately a flawed approach to describing just about any deity we can dream up. For instance, if a god is omnibenevolent -- this gives birth to the Problem of Evil.

Additionally, we run into linguistic challenges when trying to describe a god. But that's sort of outside of the point right now. We tend to describe gods as just beings that are better than we are. It's always a reflection of us as humans.

In this vast universe (or multiverse) that we live in, I'm sure there are lifeforms out there. There very well could be lifeforms that are millions of years more advanced than we are. Not just scientifically, but physically. So much so, that our descriptions of these beings would quite possibly line up with our descriptions of deities.

Now, after my rambling on about definitions and the universe. The point I'm trying to make is that the Christian God and likely every god we've thought of as humans is such an egotistical view of what could potentially be higher beings. It's a very narrow scope on the actual possibilities that are out there. So, why do you believe in this one particular description of a god?

Last, I hope you do not take this as me attacking you. I just enjoy discussion. We probably won't agree but the discussion is still enjoyable.
A episode of B5 covered this. Vorlons underneath the "shower curtain" are what ever form you believe it to be. Sheridan and others saw "angels" others there saw something else their race had as a religion. It's pretty much the undercurrent of the show. Vorlons/Shadows Good vs Evil. I'm say there might be a "shepherd" alien race so advanced in RL having the same role
I was born when she kissed me. I died when she left me. I lived a few weeks while she loved me-
In your hypothetical scenario, all it would prove is that someone has some incredible technology/powers/tools/tricks etc etc. Perhaps they're an alien with some inscrutable agenda. Given the incomprehensible scale of the universe I personally think it's highly likely that there are indeed aliens somewhere out there with technology infinitely superior to ours. Connecting that to "God" is a logical fallacy. If we showed stone age human tribes our current technology they might consider us gods too: this has already happened actually https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult. And that's only with 1940's technology!
So you think I don't have a wife? I so do have one and she is HUGE, bigger than yours and way cooler.
you just can't see her -Lynx the Dark
I already believe in Him.
Day in, day out, monotonous drought; we didn't live, we only existed.
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JoeDangIt posted...
If that same prophet attributed his powers to Ra, what would it take for you to convert?

I'll just twist that Ra is an incarnation of God

You have the right to remain silent. Anything you posted will be misquoted, then be used against you.
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I will only pray to Sobek
"You're made of spare parts, aren't ya, bud?"
No. Advanced tech or aliens are still more probable explanations. Of course the most probable is that it's a trick.
River Song: Well, I was off to this gay gypsy bar mitzvah for the disabled when I thought 'Gosh, the Third Reich's a bit rubbish, I think i'll kill the Fuhrer'
Current Events » If a prophet came and performed literal miracles, would you believe in god then?
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