A-List Celebrities in video games is weird

It always seems like such a waste, too, paying someone of that caliber to voice a throwaway character that adds nothing to the narrative just for the player to say "Oh yeah, I know that voice" and then immediately forget about it.

I get the idea might be to attract other fanbases but I really fail to see how this actually works out in practice.

It was weird hearing Captain Picard in Oblivion.

What you're living through is the evolution of media.

For decades (even up to around the time when I was a kid) it was seen as being a pretty standard mindset that A-List actors were above doing TV, and if you saw a film actor in a TV show they were blatantly slumming it. It was basically what you did when you were a has-been who couldn't get film jobs anymore. Until eventually we reached a point where it basically became acceptable for actors to do either (and in some cases, there started to be more prestige in TV).

For years, it was seen as an absolute mark of shame for actors to do commercials. Again, it was very much a view that an actor doing a commercial was slumming it, and the only reason they would do it is if they were basically a has-been or desperate for work. The meme about famous actors going to Japan to do commercials (which is the concept in Lost in Translation) was a thing because actors wouldn't be judged for doing Japanese ads (which Westerners would never see in the pre-Internet age) in the same way they would be if they did commercials in America. Now half the commercials you see either have a celebrity spokesperson, or have celebrity voice-over. It's become perfectly acceptable, and almost no one sees it as a step-down for an actor.

And even going back even farther, for years people saw acting on film to be low-class, because stage acting was where the real talent and prestige was, so if a theater actor starred in a movie people would look down on them. Now barely anyone gives a shit about theater actors and film/TV is generally seen as being way more prestigious (unless you're British).

50 years from now, people will be talking about how it's weird to see prestigious video game actors slumming it in neuro-sense brain vids or whatever.



captpackrat posted...

It was weird hearing Captain Picard in Oblivion.

The funny thing is, Patrick Stewart is pretty much the perfect avatar for this concept. If you asked him, he'd probably tell you he was most proud of his theater work, and the role you specifically remember him for was a step-down in his career because he'd have rather been doing theater or film in the 80s instead of TV.

He started out as a stage actor, then did some movies, followed by some TV (and eventually voicing over stuff like American Dad), voiced a few video game roles, and eventually did commercials as well.

Martin sheen in mass effect was awesome though

MICHALECOLE posted...

Martin sheen in mass effect was awesome though

Celebs in games is exactly the same as celebs voicing cartoon characters.

If they take it seriously, they can be awesome. If they half-ass it, it can be absolute shit. There's a ton of animated films that clearly cast name actors solely for their names, and those actors did not even remotely give a shit, and it ruins those roles (to the point where I'd have preferred a nobody voice-actor over who we actually got). There are also animated films where the celeb voice actors do a great job.

And ironically, it can vary from game-to-game. I think J. K. Simmons was awesome in Portal 2 but kind of shit in Baldur's Gate 3 (he's one of the worst performances in the entire game, as far as I'm concerned).

It can also vary by who's voicing each character appearance. I think Mandy Moore did a great job of voicing Aerith in Kingdom Hearts, but Mena Suvari was much worse in the role in KH2 and Advent Children.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

The funny thing is, Patrick Stewart is pretty much the perfect avatar for this concept. If you asked him, he'd probably tell you he was most proud of his theater work, and the role you specifically remember him for was a step-down in his career because he'd have rather been doing theater or film in the 80s instead of TV.

Alec Guinness hated Star Wars.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

If they take it seriously, they can be awesome. If they half-ass it, it can be absolute s***. There's a ton of animated films that clearly cast name actors solely for their names, and those actors did not even remotely give a s***, and it ruins those roles (to the point where I'd have preferred a nobody voice-actor over who we actually got). There are also animated films where the celeb voice actors do a great job.

I think part of that boils down to the fact that voice acting does have its own set of skills distinct from screen or stage acting. Some screen/stage actors have those skills and/or are willing to develop them for a VA role, some don't.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

For decades (even up to around the time when I was a kid) it was seen as being a pretty standard mindset that A-List actors were above doing TV, and if you saw a film actor in a TV show they were blatantly slumming it. It was basically what you did when you were a has-been who couldn't get film jobs anymore. Until eventually we reached a point where it basically became acceptable for actors to do either (and in some cases, there started to be more prestige in TV).

That's not really where I was going. Rather the opposite, in that it's often used purely as a marketing ploy because these people are so prestigious. Worst case, it actively subtracts from the experience because these decisions aren't being based on making the game better, when they could have chosen someone who does take VA work seriously as their craft and written a meaningful character. And on the other side, of course unless the developer is big enough and going all out, they aren't going to be too keen on paying an A-Lister for an extended role. Yes, currently playing Oblivion and remembering "Patrick Septim" was what inspired this topic, but Emma Stone in Sleeping Dogs is even more of an egregious example of this. Her character was completely pointless, added in for a total of two missions in the beginning of the game purely for the purpose of having Emma Stone in the game, and then forgot about. And to a lesser extent, maybe Lucy Liu as well, but I think her character got a bit more presence.

adjl posted...

I think part of that boils down to the fact that voice acting does have its own set of skills distinct from screen or stage acting. Some screen/stage actors have those skills and/or are willing to develop them for a VA role, some don't.

Absolutely this! I found it funny, watching interviews with the main VA cast of GTA5, Steven Ogg and Ned Luke were adamant that "They were 'Actors', not voice actors". And I'm thinking, "the fuck is wrong with voice acting?" Granted, they also went through motion capture, so there was more involved than going into a booth and reading lines, but VA work is absolutely a respectable skill.

Mike Tyson's Punch Out

adjl posted...

I think part of that boils down to the fact that voice acting does have its own set of skills distinct from screen or stage acting. Some screen/stage actors have those skills and/or are willing to develop them for a VA role, some don't.

This reminds me I still need to watch Blackberry for the opposite reason.

Damn_Underscore posted...

Mike Tyson's Punch Out

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/a/af9d4603.png

captpackrat posted...

It was weird hearing Captain Picard in Oblivion.

Doubly so since he only had like 15 voice lines.

adjl posted...

I think part of that boils down to the fact that voice acting does have its own set of skills distinct from screen or stage acting. Some screen/stage actors have those skills and/or are willing to develop them for a VA role, some don't.

Another factor is who the voice director is. There are some games where every performance is bad, even from skilled VAs, and it feels pretty obvious that the director was giving them bad prompts and stage direction. Especially when you hear a lot of lines where the VA is putting the emphasis on the wrong syl lah ble.

It's sort of similar to how most actors in Star Wars tend to be a bit wooden at times, because Lucas was absolutely terrible at directing human beings, especially in the prequel era.



Salrite posted...

That's not really where I was going. Rather the opposite, in that it's often used purely as a marketing ploy because these people are so prestigious.

I get that, but it's still sort of the point. The reason it feels weird is because there's still that mental disconnect between "serious acting" and "slumming it in games". Which is what makes it "prestigious" in the first place. The idea that a film actor would grace one of our piddly little vidya games with their presence!

It's the sort of thing that tends to happen when one medium is seen as being superior to another, and which also tends to equalize out once those two forms of media grow closer in acceptance. 60 years ago it would have been seen as weird for a film actor to willingly and happily do a TV role. Today it still feels a bit weird for a film or TV actor to voice a video game. 60 years from now there may be very little distinction between playing a role in film, on TV, or in a video game (assuming all VAs aren't replaced by AI or TikTok influencers by then).

And again, it's often very much a case-by-case basis as to whether or not it works. Claudia Black and Kate Mulgrew were very much TV/film actors when they did Dragon Age: Origins, and yet they're both fantastic in it. Brian Bloom was a C-List TV actor before he started doing voice work, and he's fantastic at it. Meanwhile, Alix Wilton Regan did theater, TV, and film for years before she started doing voice-work for games - and she was good in ME3 but much worse in DA:I (which again was probably a voice director issue).

Since you brought up Sleeping Dogs, it's also worth remembering that James Hong was in it (and James Hong is and will always be awesome in everything ever, and if you disagree I will fight you ). And most of the major characters in it were film or TV actors (in the same way that the GTA3 era games tended to cast people like Samuel L Jackson and James Woods to play major characters) - they were just Asian/Asian-American/Chinese/Hong Kong actors that most Westerners weren't necessarily as familiar with (and one of them was Liu Kang from the Mortal Kombat movie). Emma Stone's role wasn't really an outlier, and it wasn't really glorified cameo stunt casting as much as it was because they wanted to have minor love interest characters (because again, the game was very clearly strongly inspired by GTA: San Andreas). So she and Lucy Liu were there to be the "Lukewarm Coffee" side missions. She honestly didn't stand out to me at all (in fact, I'm not sure I even knew it was her until after I played).



Salrite posted...

I found it funny, watching interviews with the main VA cast of GTA5, Steven Ogg and Ned Luke were adamant that "They were 'Actors', not voice actors". And I'm thinking, "the fuck is wrong with voice acting?"

One thing to keep in mind with Steven Ogg is that he's kind of bitter about the fact that he tried to be a serious actor for years and no one gave a shit, and then Trevor of all characters made him famous.

For a while after, he was really wary of getting typecast (which was probably a valid fear, because he mentioned not getting certain roles because the casting directors didn't want "the guy who played Trevor").

But again, it goes back to that mindset of "Theater/Film/TV is real acting, voice-work and video games is amateur hour slumming." Which will probably still be a thing for a while to come, even as more and more games keep casting famous actors for roles (and even mocap/face scan them in like Death Stranding or CoD games). But eventually we'll probably reach a point where video game acting is generally seen as being as valid as any other form of acting (at which point we'll probably start arguing over whether or not an Internet Influencer who becomes a musician or actor counts as a "real" artist).

ParanoidObsessive posted...

Another factor is who the voice director is.

This is very true. Aerith's VA from FF7: Remake (Brianna White) talks about this, and it can be especially troublesome when localization from another language is involved. Some voice directors will do an incredible job, but other often make very strange decisions. Honestly, in this situation I, and a lot of other people thought she was supposed to be creeped out at the thought, not mocking Corneo!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkcLIEu0feo

ParanoidObsessive posted...

Since you brought up Sleeping Dogs, it's also worth remembering that James Hong was in it (and James Hong is and will always be awesome in everything ever, and if you disagree I will fight you). And most of the major characters in it were film or TV actors (in the same way that the GTA3 era games tended to cast people like Samuel L Jackson and James Woods to play major characters) - they were just Asian/Asian-American/Chinese/Hong Kong actors that most Westerners weren't necessarily as familiar with (and one of them was Liu Kang from the Mortal Kombat movie). Emma Stone's role wasn't really an outlier, and it wasn't really glorified cameo stunt casting as much as it was because they wanted to have minor love interest characters (because again, the game was very clearly strongly inspired by GTA: San Andreas). So she and Lucy Liu were there to be the "Lukewarm Coffee" side missions. She honestly didn't stand out to me at all (in fact, I'm not sure I even knew it was her until after I played).

If forgot about Samuel L Jackson, lol. He's actually a good example of it being done right, AND his character persists throughout the entire game. And he's just good at voice work in general.

It's just that I specifically remember during that time when Emma Stone was being propped up in promotional material during release, and she had barely any presence in the actual game. Admittedly, she does support the most characterization for Wei out of all the "girlfriends" (which is another conversation, they were clearly a half-assed response to GTA: SA). So it was just baffling and frustrating how much they pushed her addition. Although, I really don't like Emma Stone so it was more annoyance, lol.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

One thing to keep in mind with Steven Ogg is that he's kind of bitter about the fact that he tried to be a serious actor for years and no one gave a shit, and then Trevor of all characters made him famous.

Yeah... I really can understand his frustration and resentment. Typcasting can be a huge issue for actors. It just sometimes comes off as a superiority complex with the way he frames it. Even more so with Ned Luke, as he really didn't have much going on previously or afterwards. His performance in the game was great and he should be proud of it, but he's talking like he's a bigshot respectable actor who deserves more than to be called "just a voice actor".

captpackrat posted...

It was weird hearing Captain Picard in Oblivion.

And Sean Bean. But I think they blew 3/4 of the VO budget on those two because the game has like 8 voice actors.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

One thing to keep in mind with Steven Ogg is that he's kind of bitter about the fact that he tried to be a serious actor for years and no one gave a shit, and then Trevor of all characters made him famous.

For a while after, he was really wary of getting typecast (which was probably a valid fear, because he mentioned not getting certain roles because the casting directors didn't want "the guy who played Trevor").

Same thing happened with CJ's voice actor in GTA:SA. He wanted to be considered a rapper, but ended up in the shadow of GTA forever. But I think actors playing roles in (modern) Rockstar games need to realize that this role will be the biggest thing they'll ever do. Sure it's not a blockbuster movie, or gets them the Oscar. Which lowers the prestige, but there's endless struggling actors that would kill to have a major role in a Rockstar game now, even if its the only big thing they ever do. But they need to also realize is it won't springboard them into mainstream acting because it's a different mountain peak, on a different range, on another planet.

Miroku_of_Nite1 posted...

Sure it's not a blockbuster movie, or gets them the Oscar. Which lowers the prestige

The funny thing when you recontextualize it is the fact that being in a GTA game means your work will be seen/heard by far more people than most movies these days ever manage.

GTAV has sold more than 200 million copies. Which is about twice as much as the number of tickets as films like Titanic or Avengers: Endgame sold. The total revenue for the game was around 3-4 times more than the highest selling films of all time. By most metrics of success, GTAV is one of the most successful pieces of visual media ever made.

We can't say it's the best-selling anything of all time when it comes to all media (because the Bible usually takes that prize as the best-selling book), but it does mean the leads of GTAV were probably seen by more eyes (and for longer) than any other actor in any other single film or show ever.

Stephen Fry in Fable was damn cool, tho.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

but it does mean the leads of GTAV were probably seen by more eyes (and for longer) than any other actor in any other single film or show ever.

That brings up the question, what's the precedent for people who aren't career voice actors to be utilized across multiple games for major to semi-regular roles? What's the chance that they could be brought on by another developer for a different game?

On the one hand, it's surprising no one else saw money and clambered to get the leads into their own games at the height of their popularity. But on the other hand, yes, there is definitely typecasting involved and how soon are they to want "Trevor" or "Michael" or "Franklin" for their roles?

Salrite posted...

That brings up the question, what's the precedent for people who aren't career voice actors to be utilized across multiple games for major to semi-regular roles? What's the chance that they could be brought on by another developer for a different game?

Hard to say. GTA being such a huge phenom and those characters being immediately typecast into their roles might discourage any other dev from talking to them. Or even if they do, the success of GTA might drive their asking price up a bit too high for what other devs are willing to pay.

But you've got lower-scale games like Baldur's Gate III, where its success (and the fact that the VAs were all boosted up as gaming semi-celebrities because of it) meant those VAs probably got more work out of it (which is why you see stuff like people excitedly pointing out that Shadowheart and Jaheira are in Expedition 33, or Lae'zel being in Split Fiction).

Of course, the downside there is that's how we wound up getting things like Nolan North, Troy Baker, and Laura Bailey being in every other game. Once you've got a rep for being good and for being easy to work with, you'll probably get a lot of calls. Especially because a lot of casting directors probably talk behind the scenes.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

Of course, the downside there is that's how we wound up getting things like Nolan North, Troy Baker, and Laura Bailey being in every other game. Once you've got a rep for being good and for being easy to work with, you'll probably get a lot of calls. Especially because a lot of casting directors probably talk behind the scenes.

A lot of gate keeping in the VA world. The ones who get all the roles realized gate keeping will keep them employed. I hope AI knocks them down a few pegs tbh.

It really depends on the actor, and the role, and what you consider A list at the time. Ray Liotta was the absolute perfect casting for Tommy Vercetti given his history starring in Goodfellas. Samuel L Jackson was amazing in San Andreas as well.