I don't give a shit which DST we stay on. Just fucking pick one and be done.

end rant

I feel like the problem with this issue (and a lot of others) is that it gets talked about for a week or two before, and a week or two after, then never again. If people really want it fixed and not just have it be the topic of the minute, they need to discuss it year round, not just when it inconveniences them.

The problem is, most people don't really care, and the loudest voices who scream about it are a) a tiny powerless minority, and b) can't agree on what they actually want anyway.

The end result is nothing gets done, because it's not really that important, there are arguments for both sides, and politicians haven't figured out a way to fully exploit it for votes yet.

I would be mad if we kept winter hours forever.

I love daylight savings, without it the sun would rise at like 430am here. I love the sun.

Falcon2852 posted...

I would be mad if we kept winter hours forever.

Standard time is a closer match to our circadian rhythm than DST.

I don't need sunrise at 9am at the solstice.

We dont change the clocks here. Its great.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

can't agree on what they actually want anyway.

This is the biggest issue. Enough people agree that it should end one way or the other that if that were the only deciding vote, it would have ended ages ago, but there are legitimate arguments for both ways in which it could be ended and the vote ends up being split more or less evenly, so nothing ever changes.

adjl posted...

This is the biggest issue. Enough people agree that it should end one way or the other that if that were the only deciding vote, it would have ended ages ago, but there are legitimate arguments for both ways in which it could be ended and the vote ends up being split more or less evenly, so nothing ever changes.

I don't know... I feel like, in my personal experience, the overwhelming majority of people are for daylight savings time. I've almost never heard anyone say they prefer the alternative

OhhhJa posted...

I don't know... I feel like, in my personal experience, the overwhelming majority of people are for daylight savings time. I've almost never heard anyone say they prefer the alternative

The overwhelming majority of people don't really give a shit, apart from a bit of mild grumbling for a couple days, then completely forgetting about it again until the next shift.

It's a minor inconvenience, so almost no one sees it as a huge priority that needs to be addressed. If you ask someone they'll probably say they don't like it (because of the inconvenience), but for most people it's not a very strongly held opinion, and for most people their opinion is based on pretty much zero understanding of actual facts, data, or arguments in favor or against. So their opinions are almost worthless. It's the metaphorical equivalent of a child that doesn't want to eat their vegetables.

There ARE valid arguments both for and against. Which is why the people who actually have to make the decision don't really want to commit to one option or the other. Because any choice they make WILL make some things worse.



KalloFox34 posted...

Standard time is a closer match to our circadian rhythm than DST.

I don't need sunrise at 9am at the solstice.

Arguably our circadian rhythms have almost nothing to do with it, considering they're reset by light, and most of us live in a world of constant artificial light. Sunrise barely has anything to do with our cycles at this point as much as alarm clocks and the lights in our house do. And our arbitrary social construct of when days "start" and "end".

As for the rest, a summer solstice sunrise on DST would be around 5am, whereas it's around 4am without DST. Which is part of why we use DST in the first place. But the whole point of DST has very little to do with sunrise , as much as it does sunset . Sunset on DST is somewhere around 8:30, whereas on standard it's 7:30 (which is a bit too early).

DST was basically invented to get that extra hour of daylight at the end of the day (when it would be useful to people), as opposed to the beginning of the day (when it's essentially a waste because it comes way too early).

Which implies we'd be better off switching to DST permanently rather than standard time - except then you're getting sunrise somewhere around 8am instead of 7am. Which -I'd- be fine with (especially because I'd rather get the 5pm sunset rather than a 4pm one), but a lot of people hate the idea of getting up in the morning and going to work in total darkness.

Again though, this is the problem with abolishing DST. Some people want to keep it. Some people want to do away with it and just go with standard time. Some people would prefer to switch to DST full time (which can potentially cause its own issues with global time zones). And some people would rather avoid the whole mess entirely because it's going to be a huge disruption no matter what we do, so they'd rather just put it off until it becomes someone else's problem.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

The overwhelming majority of people don't really give a shit, apart from a bit of mild grumbling for a couple days, then completely forgetting about it again until the next shift.

This is what you actively hear in the days following, but I guarantee you if you ask people their opinion most will say they prefer more daylight in the evening. It has more perks than downsides. For one, people drive shittier at night, and I've noticed my drive home after work is visibly less encumbered during DST

Whichever is later

I think people just don't like the sudden shock of the time being off by an entire hour. So, I think on each of the 120 days leading up to the start and end of each cycle, we should adjust the clocks by 30 seconds accordingly so we don't have to do it all at once.

HelIWithoutSin posted...

I think people just don't like the sudden shock of the time being off by an entire hour. So, I think on each of the 120 days leading up to the start and end of each cycle, we should adjust the clocks by 30 seconds accordingly so we don't have to do it all at once.

This would help a lot and be relatively easy to do with how many clocks these days are connected to a network, but any standalone clocks would need to be updated manually every 2+ days to keep up and I feel like there are still too many of those for the idea to be practical.

That said, six days of 10-minute adjustments or twelve of 5-minute adjustments might be doable. Just not spending 2/3 of the year having to remember to adjust every clock you own.

Yeah I prefer the way it is now. Everything comes out an hour earlier now.