Jolly Roger Bay > Dire Dire Docks

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Poll of the Day » Jolly Roger Bay > Dire Dire Docks
Damn_Underscore
08/18/2024
09:26 PM
#1
I don't know why this is called the Dire Dire Docks theme when Jolly Roger Bay is better

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piJG3oOXKVo

Bowser's submarine (which doesn't go away until you beat the 2nd Bowser it turns out) adds extreme lag to the level. Also I prefer Jolly Roger Bay's setting. Also Jolly Roger Bay is a lot earlier in the game than Dire Dire Docks

Both have annoying parts tho
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adjl
08/18/2024
10:06 PM
#2
I don't know for sure, but I would guess DDD was made first, so the track got named after it before JRB was made/positioned. JRB's also just a more refined stage in general, so I could believe it was started later in development after the team had learned from making other stages.
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faramir77
08/18/2024
11:43 PM
#3
Water stages are rarely fun for me, and these two are no exception. Jolly Roger Bay was the better stage, though, and I agree that it makes little sense that the song is always attributed to Dire Dire Docks.

The song slaps HARD though, especially as a N64 song. If I had to guess why it always gets associated with Dire Dire Docks, it's because of that long swim section you have to do at the start of the stage, which just gives you time to absorb listening to the music.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiCtAUrZbUk
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Zareth
08/18/2024
11:58 PM
#4
adjl posted...
JRB's also just a more refined stage in general, so I could believe it was started later in development after the team had learned from making other stages.
Yeah early game stages are usually made later for this reason
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MorbidEngel
08/19/2024
12:46 AM
#5
DDD feels like it was only designed for Bowser's sub and nothing else anyhow. It's easily the smallest stage in the game and the other stars feel kind of shoehorned in.

Hell it's the only stage where the 100 coin star means collecting nearly every coin in the stage
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Lokarin
08/19/2024
12:47 AM
#6
honeslty......
....

I think Clanker's Cavern is the best water level of all time
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I_is_smart
08/19/2024
12:57 AM
#7
MorbidEngel posted...
DDD feels like it was only designed for Bowser's sub and nothing else anyhow. It's easily the smallest stage in the game and the other stars feel kind of shoehorned in.

Hell it's the only stage where the 100 coin star means collecting nearly every coin in the stage

JRB had even fewer coins. Only 104 coins compared to DDD's 106, miss one blue and you're locked out.

Tah-rah-rah-boom-dee-aaay, did you get yours todaaay? I got mine yesterdaaay, that's why I walk this way.
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MorbidEngel
08/19/2024
07:20 PM
#8
Wow, really? It's been a while since I played
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Sahuagin
08/20/2024
09:25 PM
#9
I think I like DDD more, but possibly only because it's earlier so I tend to visit it more than JRB.
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SilentSeph
08/20/2024
09:42 PM
#10
Sahuagin posted...
I think I like DDD more, but possibly only because it's earlier so I tend to visit it more than JRB.
JRB is earlier than DDD
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Sahuagin
08/20/2024
10:03 PM
#11
SilentSeph posted...
JRB is earlier than DDD
yes, looks like even though I looked it up I still got them backwards. so -1 DDD, +1 JRB.
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Hejiru
08/21/2024
08:35 AM
#12
I believe Nintendo saw DDD as the default water level with JRB being thought up later. Im basing this on their Japanese names: DDD is just Water Land while JRB is Pirates Cove.

Also, we saw footage of DDD early in development. It doesnt prove that DDD was made first, but it may lend credence to the idea.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction has to make sense.
Damn_Underscore
08/21/2024
10:27 AM
#13
Well they must have been impressed by Dire Dire Docks because you are forced to play it
On a hot summer night, would you offer your throat to the wolf with the red roses?
I bet you say that to all the boys...
Entity13
08/22/2024
03:45 AM
#14
On a side note, the DDD/JRB theme wasn't even the first or second time Nintendo used that melody in a Mario game, come to think of it. The same melody was used twice in Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island (one of the boss themes and the pre-boss music when Kamek taunts you). It's like the composer for Mario 64 wanted to reuse that melody for a slow, soothing tune for water-based stages.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb179/EntityXIII/entityfn7.jpg
Nade_Duck
08/22/2024
04:07 AM
#15
in a game full of interesting and fun levels, DDD still managed to be boring.
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Hejiru
08/24/2024
05:20 PM
#16
Entity13 posted...
On a side note, the DDD/JRB theme wasn't even the first or second time Nintendo used that melody in a Mario game, come to think of it. The same melody was used twice in Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island (one of the boss themes and the pre-boss music when Kamek taunts you). It's like the composer for Mario 64 wanted to reuse that melody for a slow, soothing tune for water-based stages.

Uh, are you sure? I don't hear anything similar in those tracks. I even tried slowing down Kamek's theme but it doesn't sound like Dire Dire Docks.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction has to make sense.
Entity13
08/30/2024
07:09 PM
#17
Hejiru posted...
Uh, are you sure? I don't hear anything similar in those tracks. I even tried slowing down Kamek's theme but it doesn't sound like Dire Dire Docks.

Yep. Same melody, changes in tempo or rhythm.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb179/EntityXIII/entityfn7.jpg
Sahuagin
08/30/2024
10:45 PM
#18
Entity13 posted...
Yep. Same melody, changes in tempo or rhythm.
the only thing I notice is that they both sort of repeat one "phrase" low and then high, and repeat. but the "phrase" is not really that similar, and there's so much more going on in the DDD theme than the Kamek theme.

https://musescore.com/bowserdude/kamek-s-theme-super-mario-world-2-yoshi-s-island
https://musescore.com/torbybrand/dirediredocks
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Entity13
08/31/2024
04:28 AM
#19
Sahuagin posted...
the only thing I notice is that they both sort of repeat one "phrase" low and then high, and repeat. but the "phrase" is not really that similar, and there's so much more going on in the DDD theme than the Kamek theme.

https://musescore.com/bowserdude/kamek-s-theme-super-mario-world-2-yoshi-s-island
https://musescore.com/torbybrand/dirediredocks

Ah, I misremembered Kamek's theme as including the melody when it doesn't. The mini-boss theme, though, does have it.
https://youtu.be/z9j0d-BLQ0M?si=Icbm0VnIdrlCmoFA&t=12s
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb179/EntityXIII/entityfn7.jpg
Hejiru
08/31/2024
12:49 PM
#20
Entity13 posted...
Ah, I misremembered Kamek's theme as including the melody when it doesn't. The mini-boss theme, though, does have it.
https://youtu.be/z9j0d-BLQ0M?si=Icbm0VnIdrlCmoFA&t=12s

Eh, if you say so. I still don't hear it. If you speed up Dire Dire Docks they sound like they have similar styles , but I can't tell where the melodies are the same.

I know that Koji Kondo did reuse some melodies from Yoshi's Island, like how the Castle theme starts off with what would later become the Song of Storms.
And the whistle from LoZ being used in SMB3 and then back into OoT.
But I don't think this is one of those times.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction has to make sense.
TwentyBatmans
08/31/2024
01:08 PM
#21
swimming in games no thank you why do it
break every rule
adjl
08/31/2024
01:49 PM
#22
Swimming in Subnautica was pretty great. Of course, walking wasn't, so I guess you can only have one good mode of locomotion per game.
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Poll of the Day » Jolly Roger Bay > Dire Dire Docks