I'm going to replay all the Zelda games in release order this year

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Poll of the Day » I'm going to replay all the Zelda games in release order this year
The biggest thing I remember about the end of TP was being genuinely surprised that I was in the last dungeon. I don't remember exactly why, but I got to the castle and the lack of "here's the final dungeon!" sort of build-up meant that I fully expected there to be more after it, only for that to be it. It's been a long time since I last played it, though, so maybe I'm misremembering and I was mostly just disappointed by the cop-out of having Ganondorf pulled out as the real villain at the last minute.
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I know what you mean. I don't think I felt that way about it, but I saw Ganondorf being the true final boss a million miles away. The final dungeon to me was more like "oh okay, one more thing I guess".

Twilight Princess's plot was really just "here's a ton of ideas and characters, but we're not really going to solidly connect them". It basically is a Zelda game as if it were directed by JJ Abrams.
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-- Defeating the Running Man of Ocarina of Time in a race since 01/17/2009. --
I've made it to the seventh dungeon in Twilight Princess.

The sixth dungeon really wasn't great, it's pretty tedious climbing all the way to the top of the dungeon just to slowly lead a statue back down. I lucked out and found the boss key just out of searching for the Heart Pieces in the dungeon, if I hadn't done that I definitely would have missed it and would have backtracked back up a few floors yet again. The boss of that dungeon was also terrible, I'd actually say it's a contender for worst 3D Zelda boss. It's a good example of why relying on the dungeon item for a boss fight isn't always the best idea design wise. Link's Awakening did that with the Eagle's Tower boss (the item in that dungeon was the Mirror Shield), and that boss was a lot of fun despite not needing the Mirror Shield at all. The Dominion Rod is really just the Command Melody from Wind Waker made into an item, but somehow with even less utility.

The segment between the sixth and seventh dungeon wasn't as bad as I remembered. You need to find the secret words in the ancient sky language hidden around Hyrule. In a way, it plays a similar padding role as the Triforce shard quest in Wind Waker, but not even CLOSE to as miserable. Still, instead of finding 6 different words, it probably would have been better if they had shortened it to finding just 4 different words. It wasn't fun finding them, just tedious.

Bringing the broken ancient Sky Cannon to Lake Hylia was a great way to connect your current objective to a minor character that you've interacted with a few times. I really like the dialogue he has, calling it a "rig", which adds an interesting dynamic to his character showing how his business is more like a passionate hobby of his. It's so weird but adds such a great sense of humanity to that character, oddly more so than the game does for other more major characters.

Lastly, Ilia gives you the "Horse Call" item, which honestly feels way too late in the game to be useful. There have been a few times I've encountered where I'm scrambling looking for a wild reed to use to call my horse (PotD), but I can say with some certainty that at this very late point in the game I'm not likely to even ride the horse again at all.

I've obtained all the Hidden Skills, too. They were maybe a bit too subtle with revealing that the Heros's Shade is the spirit of the Hero of Time, which is a MASSIVE revelation and perhaps the only time in the series where two different Links meet . Sometimes subtlelty is great, but this was a bit too flimsy.

I'm hoping to be done by tomorrow. There's no chance I'll be done this and the two DS Zeldas by the end of August now, but I'll at least have a good start on Phantom Hourglass. Work starts for me again on the 26th, so progress will slow to the same snail pace it was between March and June. I will absolutely save playing Echoes of Wisdom until I've finished this entire playthrough, though!

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-- Defeating the Running Man of Ocarina of Time in a race since 01/17/2009. --
I've finally finished Twilight Princess! What an incredibly long game, by far the longest in the series so far. I left the game paused for long periods of time so my in game timer isn't accurate (it says 67 hours lmao) but I'd bet it likely took in the 25-30 hour range. Most of the game wasn't pointless filler either, so I can respect that.

The seventh dungeon was great both in its concept and its delivery as a dungeon. The item (Double Clawshots) added a surprisingly fun new gimmick to an age old item in the series. I absolutely love the boss, Argorok, even if he is a bit too easy. Very good idea to have his presence continuously known and seen as you compete that dungeon.

The eighth dungeon, however, was pretty uninteresting. Leading the Sols away from the giant hands that chase you was one of the most tense things in the series so far, but not particularly fun. The boss of that dungeon, Zant, was very well designed though.

The ninth and final dungeon was short but sweet. Defeating King Bulblin for the fourth time was a great way to unexpectedly wrap up a character arc that you didn't expect needing wrapping up. I also loved when the group from Telmas's bar comes to save you .The final boss lacks difficulty but feels fulfilling to complete nevertheless.

One minor thing I've noticed are the sound effects. The quality ranges from great to poor. I have a new surround sound system which might be the reason I've noticed it so much, but some sound effects are clearly reused from Wind Waker (not necessarily a bad thing). The sound effects of armour falling off Argorok (the boss of the seventh dungeon) sound very similar to the barrel smashing sound from Donkey Kong 64, to the point where I think it straight up was the same one. It's a very distinct sound, and I'm kind of amazed I've noticed that.

The game doesn't do the best job at tying up loose ends, or meaningfully connecting it to previous storylines. The revelation that Midna is the princess of the Twilight Realm was presented as if it's a major spoiler, when really it seems like a basic assumption from the start of the game. The Fused Shadows getting used a few times in the last minutes of the game only to be destroyed makes me question why they even bothered using them, or instead Zant should have destroyed them after the third dungeon. The nmotivation that Zant gives for trying to conquer Hyrule ( he was only being a servant to the Twilight Royal Family in an attempt to become part of that family ) was really weak, and made even worse by the subversion of the expectation that Zant was a badass when in reality he's an unstable silly idiot . I did catch an intersesting line from Midna, though, where she says that her people long awaited a hero to arrive as a "divine beast", which makes me wonder if the naming of the divine beasts in Breath of the Wild was deliberate .

Overall, while very flawed in regards to weaving together a meaningful or intellectually stimulating story, Twilight Princess manages to be an incredible game. The graphics were beautiful for a Gamecube game, and aside from the terrible 480p resolution I've had to endure, it stills holds up well. They took bold risks by introducing a ton of new items, or by making new changes to items we've seen in many previous Zelda games, and generally they were a major hit. Lastly, Hyrule had never come even close to being as expansive and full of life as it did in Twilight Princess. What a wonderful game.

To update my ranking of the series so far:

  1. OoT
  2. MM
  3. ALttP
  4. TP
  5. WW
  6. OoS
  7. OoA
  8. MC
  9. LA
  10. AoL
  11. LoZ
  12. FSA
I'll begin Phantom Hourglass this evening. This is very unfamiliar territory to me, as I've only played through it and Spirit Tracks once, back when each game released (and Phantom Hourglass released 17 years ago already!). I remember not liking PH at all, but I'm willing to give it a fresh and fair new opinion all these years later.

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-- Defeating the Running Man of Ocarina of Time in a race since 01/17/2009. --
Oof, good luck with Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks.
I wasn't able to finish Spirit Tracks when I played it because my original DS microphone didn't work properly and the flute segments were actually impossible.
What would Bligh do?
I've started Phantom Hourglass. I've completed the first dungeon (the Temple of Fire) as well as the first venture through the Temple of the Ocean King (ugh) to acquire the northwest ocean map. I just got the ship cannon before I saved and quit.

The game is alright so far. The controls require you to use the stylus to move around and navigate the menus, with buttons very rarely (and typically optionally) being used. I find that using the L button to select my item (the only item I have so far is the boomerang) is much faster and easier than using the touch screen button, but it takes time to get used to it, as if you let go of the L button, your item deactivates, which is a lot different than how other Zelda games work. That said, the touch screen controls aren't all that bad. It's rare that I can't get Link to control properly, and usually it has to do with getting Link to do a somersault (which requires you to draw a little circle at the edge of the touch screen very quickly, not the most user friendly thing).

I remember virtually nothing about this game. Linebeck is a fun character, and I always remembered him as being this game's sidekick, but in reality the fairy Ciela is actually the sidekick in this game, and she is completely forgettable. She uses the same "hey" and "listen" sounds as Navi from Ocarina of Time, which kind of comes across as lazy to me. I think I remember the big spoiler with both her character as well as the separate big spoiler for the old man Oshus, but I'll keep that to myself for now. If I'm correct, both of those spoilers are made pretty obvious very early in the game.

I was surprised to see "Force Gems" from Four Swords Adventures make a return, I have no memory of those at all. They don't play as integral of a role (so far), but it's a clear reference to FSA, which is a very odd choice of game to reference.

Another odd choice is this games unique approach to boss keys. They are a large item that require you to slowly carry it to the boss door, which prevents you from using your sword or items while carrying it. I appreciate the attempt to make something new in the series, but I can already tell that this is going to be used for the most aggravating puzzles in later dungeons.

I'm on my way to the second dungeon. I have no idea how many dungeons are in this game, as it's been nearly 17 years since I've played it. So far, it's better than I remembered, but still nothing spectacular to write home about.

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-- Defeating the Running Man of Ocarina of Time in a race since 01/17/2009. --
I've completed the first three dungeons as well as acquired the southeastern ocean map from the Temple of the Ocean King.

The game isn't holding up as well as it started. The Temple of the Ocean King is every bit as horrible as I remembered. I have no idea who at Nintendo thought it would be a good idea to backtrack through the same dungeon multiple different times, while also making sure that dungeon was a stealth mission, and ALSO making sure it has a time limit. It basically breaks all the rules for good game design, and for absolutely no good reason.

The dialogue in the game is also pretty poor, almost as if it were written as a fan fiction. Linebeck is the only character that has an interesting personality, but even then his personality is characterized by cheesy sarcastic quips and a far too one dimensional focus on acquiring treasure. The plot seems to be made up as you go, with important elements like the identity of the main villian seeming more shoehorned into the game to fill a gap in the plot rather than conceived as a planned out feature.

Superficially, I appreciate the thematic connections that Phantom Hourglass makes to it's prequel, the Wind Waker. There was also a cutscene that unexpectedly used the Light World dungeon music theme from A Link to the Past, which weirdly fit VERY well.

Another thing I appreciate is the encouragement the game provides behind actually writing on your map. It's an awesome feature and does a lot to make me feel more connected to the world and puzzles within it. Other great mechanics have included the use of both screens; one boss battle used a screen to show the boss's point of view while it was invisible to help you gauge where the boss is.

Not everything has been this creative, though. The last "puzzle" I just solved before saving and quitting was one where you need to talk to every Goron on an island, with no way to check your progress. One of the Gorons doesn't just need you to talk with them, but also to defeat some enemies it was looking at. The game provides no hint for this, it just expects you to know exactly what to do.

As watered down as the plot seems, I still have a few interesting unanswered questions. What exactly is the truth behind Ciela's character? What is the origin and purpose of Bellum? Jolene refered to her search for Linebeck as being 100 years in the making, was this an exaggeration or is there something else going on? The story is definitely pretty weak right now, but there certainly is potential if these questions ever get addresses. Again, I have virtually zero memory of this game as I haven't played through it since 2007.

Tomorrow is my last day before I'm back to work. I have absolutely no idea how far in Phantom Hourglass I am, but I would expect I'm at least half done. I'm hoping to at least be done Phantom Hourglass before the end of August.

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-- Defeating the Running Man of Ocarina of Time in a race since 01/17/2009. --
Still plugging along in Phantom Hourglass. This game is a fair bit longer than I remembered. I'd say I'm at least 12 hours into it, but it's becoming clear that I'm likely around 75% done. I've completed the fourth (Goron Temple) and fifth (Temple of Ice) dungeons, with one more that I need to find in order to get the last pure metal so I can have the Phantom Sword constructed. I've also returned to the Temple of the Ocean King yet again to get the northeastern sea chart, which is the last one.

The dungeon design has become pretty samey. No dungeon has really had a stand out feel to it yet, which comes as disappointing after Twilight Princess did such a great job providing atmosphere to each of its dungeons. It's understandable that a handheld game like PH isn't going to match that, but with PH it almost feels like it doesn't even try. The music is even the same in every dungeon, and seems like a more boring rehashed version of the cave music from ALttP.

The bosses have been decent though. One of the earlier dungeons had a boss that turned invisible, but your top DS screen showed you their first person view, so you could determine where they actually were. The fourth dungeon's boss required you to control a Goron to help you fight it, which was pretty cool. The fifth dungeon's boss was a great take on an Gleeok, the dragon boss that has rarely made reappearances since the first NES Zelda , and it actually provided a reasonable level of challenge.

Navigating the oceans works fairly well, but enemy encounters are far too common, and especially common are fights with Jolene, who I'm not really convinced you even can escape from once she spots you. The game at least provides a steadily increasing rupee reward for putting up with it, though.

I really liked the Anouki characters, they have such a wild energy about them and they genuinely made me smile. I wish they'd bring them back in future Zelda games, I find them much more interesting and entertaining than the same old Gorons and Zoras that Ocarina of Time cemented into the series. I really enjoyed the investigation they get you to do regarding finding the imposter; it was a decently challenging logic puzzle unlike anything the series had tried before. It was super satisfying to solve it, moreso than any puzzle in the last several games.

Lastly, the Temple of the Ocean King is really not fun at all. I don't know how or why this was ever given the green light. It takes way too long to go through and doesn't provide enough interesting new challenges to make it feel worthwhile. I think this was the 5th time the game forces you to go through the temple, and the games made it clear that there certainly will be at least one more. The game does at least let you skip to the 7th floor now, but that still leaves the more time consuming second half of the floors for you to revist again and again. Not a fan at all.

I feel like Phantom Hourglass will likely get finished this weekend. If there's a nice thing to say about it, it's that it is actually holding my attention quite well. It's not the best Zelda game, but I am at least enjoying playing through it again. It's remarkable that I don't really remember anything about it, but that's been a blessing as it almost feels like I'm playing a new game.

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-- Defeating the Running Man of Ocarina of Time in a race since 01/17/2009. --
I've finished Phantom Hourglass! I was pleasantly surprised how much better this game was than I remembered. I've always ranked it either at or near the bottom of the series, but I no longer think that's a fair placement for it.

The game made excellent use of the dual screens as well as the touch screen. Being able to draw on the map directly is a feature that I wish was somehow possible in every Zelda game. The touch controls for moving, attacking, and using items weren't always perfect but they work well enough to be enjoyable. The bosses were generally fantastic, and I especially liked Eox, the boss of the sixth dungeon. They all made very creative use of nearly every feature of the DS. The puzzles were often great, stumping me on numerous occasions.

The game does have significant flaws, though. You obtain the Phantom Sword, which is the only sword upgrade, in the last 45 minutes of the game . None of the dungeons stand out at all, and they all feel thematically the same. The general plot of the game was lacking, as the main villain has virtually no presence at all until the very end, which doesn't make it feel like a very threatening villain. The dialogue also feels very awkward and poorly written. The sole exception, as I've mentioned before, is Linebeck, who probably is the best sidekick (even though he's secondary to the plot to Ciela) in the series yet, particularly as a source of comic relief.

All of the interesting questions I mentioned in my second update for Phantom Hourglass never really get answered. Ciela sort of gets an answer but it isn't very interesting, she's literally the same as the other Spirits but also has an ability to stop time briefly in the final boss battle. Bellum has no backstory or motive. Jolene must have been exaggerating when she said she was searching for Linebeck for 100 years, which I can chalk up to my earlier point that the dialogue is poorly written.

Also, the ship upgrading system was full of features but obtaining new parts were few and far between, which made it feel inaccessible. Not to mention that ship upgrades only did something if you obtained matching ship parts from the same set, which never happened in my playthrough even once, so the feature was purely cosmetic for me. This is unfortunate because the northeast sea was dangerous enough to nearly require you to have a ship upgrade or two, so I had a game over that felt unfair and required me to try again with a new route where I'm not going to be ambushed by enemies I can only hold off for so long. Similarly unfair are the Pols Voice enemies early in the game. One caused me a game over because you have to defeat them by making a lot of sound in your DS microphone, and it just straight up wasn't working .

Aside from its flaws, Phantom Hourglass was an engaging and fun experience for the majority of the game. The final run through the Temple of the Ocean King was made much better by the ability for the Phantom Sword to defeat the Phantoms, rather than having to sneak around . The game certainly could have been polished a bit more, but what they released is still a solid and innovative addition to the series, and a fun continuation of the story of the Link from Wind Waker. Of all the games in the series so far, this is the one I had previously underrated the most. It's still nowhere near the top of the series, but it's well worth your time. My updated ranking:

  1. OoT
  2. MM
  3. ALttP
  4. TP
  5. WW
  6. OoS
  7. OoA
  8. PH
  9. MC
  10. LA
  11. AoL
  12. LoZ
  13. FSA
I'll likely begin Spirit Tracks later today. I remember liking Spirit Tracks a LOT more than Phantom Hourglass, so I'm quite excited. I remember the story being a lot more compelling, too.

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-- Defeating the Running Man of Ocarina of Time in a race since 01/17/2009. --
You think TP is long wait until you get to Breath of the Wild unless you are damn good at skipping shit and fighting bosses before you have the right stuff it's over 55 hours.

I hear Tears of the Kingdom is even longer but I have not beaten that yet so can't comment.
Getting too damn old for this crap!
Monopoman posted...
You think TP is long wait until you get to Breath of the Wild unless you are damn good at skipping shit and fighting bosses before you have the right stuff it's over 55 hours.

I hear Tears of the Kingdom is even longer but I have not beaten that yet so can't comment.

dont forget about Skyward Sword that game is damn long as well. I havent played Totk yet but Ill be playing it probably around the holiday time. I cant wait, I just spent 70 hours on Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity. That game took forever to beat as well, albeit I was doing side quests constantly. Loved every minute of it though, cant wait to play Tears
Big yellow joint big yellow joint I'll meet you down at the big yellow joint
faramir77 posted...
Similarly unfair are the Pols Voice enemies early in the game. One caused me a game over because you have to defeat them by making a lot of sound in your DS microphone, and it just straight up wasn't working.
You won't be able to finish Spirit Tracks with that DS. You're required to have a working microphone for the Lokomo flute sections. It's what made me quit it.
What would Bligh do?
Monopoman posted...
You think TP is long wait until you get to Breath of the Wild unless you are damn good at skipping shit and fighting bosses before you have the right stuff it's over 55 hours.

I hear Tears of the Kingdom is even longer but I have not beaten that yet so can't comment.

Oh yeah, I'm aware of that, haha. I've played through them all before, this is just my first time playing them in succession in release order. TotK absolutely felt longer than BotW but I'll do my best to trim both of them down. I'm going to require myself to complete all the dungeons and earn the Master Sword in each, even though technically they're all optional and you can head right to the final boss.

FrozenBananas posted...
dont forget about Skyward Sword that game is damn long as well. I havent played Totk yet but Ill be playing it probably around the holiday time. I cant wait, I just spent 70 hours on Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity. That game took forever to beat as well, albeit I was doing side quests constantly. Loved every minute of it though, cant wait to play Tears

Skyward Sword is comparable to Twilight Princess in length. I'll be playing the Switch version which thankfully reduces the intro time greatly, not to mention I've heard it almost completely removes Fi's dialogue throughout the game. Both of those shave off at least an hour or two.

Zareth posted...
You won't be able to finish Spirit Tracks with that DS. You're required to have a working microphone for the Lokomo flute sections. It's what made me quit it.

I was actually thinking about that when it happened. To be fair, I'm playing PH and ST on my 3DS XL. I had no issue with the flute sections when I originally played it back in 2009 on my original DS, which I still have. Worst case scenario I'll play it on the old original DS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiCtAUrZbUk
-- Defeating the Running Man of Ocarina of Time in a race since 01/17/2009. --
I was in the minority (at least of people that I knew) that liked Spirit Tracks a lot less than Phantom Hourglass.
girls like my fa
ReturnOfFa posted...
I was in the minority (at least of people that I knew) that liked Spirit Tracks a lot less than Phantom Hourglass.
Same, but my DS literally couldn't play it
What would Bligh do?
Alright, so I've made some minor progress in Spirit Tracks. I'm not sure if I'm just burned out from Phantom Hourglass, but I'm having a hard time getting into Spirit Tracks. It's VERY similar to Phantom Hourglass, moreso than any other two Zelda games before (other than the Oracle games, which was purposeful). It struggles to hold my attention for more than about an hour at a time. I'd estimate I'm about 5 hours into the game.

First, I like the premise of the plot. Taking place about 100 years after Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass, the story is a continuation of the accomplishments of Link and Tetra from Wind Waker. There's a lot of heartfelt nods to the characters from those games, which definitely helps the game establish its tone.

Link has a unique voice actor in this one. It's a subtle change, but I'm glad they did it, because otherwise it would be easier to assume this was somehow the same Link from WW and PH.

The Anouki from Phantom Hourglass are back, with one of them explaining how they left their old island to come to New Hyrule. I mentioned during my PH playthrough how much I liked them, so naturally seeing them again made me happy. The puzzle they make you do isn't as advanced as the one from PH, but it was nice to see them pull their shenanigans again.

I'm getting massive Skyward Sword vibes from the music and tone of the game. I know this game released a couple years before SS, but there must be someone high up in development common to both of those games. This is not a good thing, it's actually very off putting as I really have no care for Skyward Sword at all.

The flute segments that require you to use the microphone haven't been a big problem yet, but the accuracy of my 3DS microphone is definitely bad. Luckily the game has a VERY forgiving tolerance for errors, so I could absolutely screw up a song and yet the game still registers it as being played perfectly.

I'm currently in the Snow Realm on my way to the second dungeon. The Tower of Spirits clearly was intended to fill the same role as the Temple of the Ocean King (a hub you return to after each dungeon), but it isn't nearly as bad so far given that it doesn't require you to backtrack as much. So far, the game isn't as good as I remembered, and more or less on par with Phantom Hourglass.

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-- Defeating the Running Man of Ocarina of Time in a race since 01/17/2009. --
I have again made some VERY slow progress with Spirit Tracks. This game is really tough to get into. It feels like a series of pointless fetch quests rather than an interesting adventure.

I've completed the second dungeon, earned the Ocean Realm Map, and have just encountered the broken bridge connecting the Forest Realm to the Ocean Realm, which will require me to go ALL the way back to the Snow Realm to get the bridge worker and bring him all the way back. Ugh. At least in the process I've met Linebeck III, which feels like Nintendo's way of acknowledging how awesome of a character Linebeck was . I've also done some moderate sidequesting, mainly focusing on collecting the stamp stations and Heart Containers.

The dungeon design has been better than Phantom Hourglass so far. They at least try to give the dungeons a central theme, and some of the ideas worked great. I liked in the second dungeon the requirement to use the ice flame torches to freeze the deep water allowing you to cross. The bosses have been better than Phantom Hourglass bosses so far, too.

Spirit Tracks is suffering from an issue many other Zelda games have, and that's a disconnect between the established story and what you actually engage with in the game. There has been no additional presence from either Cole or Byrne. They did a great job of setting these characters up as villains, I wish they'd at least try to expand on it.

Overall so far, the game has deep lows that just make it an absolute drag to play. I'm very surprised because my memory has always placed this well above Phantom Hourglass. I think I'm about a third of the way through the game, with likely 8 or so hours already put into it.

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-- Defeating the Running Man of Ocarina of Time in a race since 01/17/2009. --
I remember starting Spirit Tracks, kind of bouncing off of it and drifting away before I got very deep into it, but then when I came back and pushed past that I had a pretty good time. I don't remember how long I was away or if I fully restarted when I returned, but if you're finding the early game to be a drag maybe my recollection is because it has a stronger back end. That, or we just have different opinions, in which case there's no choice but to fight to the death.
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I have TotK coming in the mail this week, cant wait to play it. I just played and really loved Hyrule Warriors: AoC, almost 100%d it but didnt want to collect every korok seed. That game was amazing
Big yellow joint big yellow joint I'll meet you down at the big yellow joint
Alright it's been forever since I've given an update. I haven't played much. I've been sick all week, but even before that, I just haven't cared to play this. I just completed the third dungeon.

I have absolutely no idea why Spirit Tracks was always remembered so fondly by me. This might actually be the worst one in the series. The game makes absolutely zero attempt to get you to meaningfully care about the land of New Hyrule. The prior existence of the Lokomo people in this land before it was colonized and renamed by the Hylian settlers is honestly a messed up backstory that honestly paints Tetra and Wind Waker Link in a very negative light.

The gameplay between dungeons is absolute trash. It usually involves plotting a route on your train track map, and then having to change it because one of those bomb trains decides to go on a crash course towards you. This isn't fun. When you aren't travelling by train, you're usually completing some pointless scavenger hunt put in to pad out the length of the game. It's in these moments that the touch screen controls both me, as it's so tedious to use the touch screen to complete something that could more easily be completed with a D-pad and the A button.

I've also had to complete a couple of train escorting missions. In order to complete, you need to obey the completely pointless arbitrary speed limit signs posted everywhere, even if a bomb train is chasing you and you need to escape from it to avoid a game over. Who the hell thought that was good game design?

Another thing the game does is just expect you to remember to play a pan flute song that you learned 10+ hours of gameplay ago BUT LITERALLY NEVER HAD TO USE UNTIL NOW. I straight up had to Google "is there a shovel in Spirit Tracks" when I was required to dig something up just to find out that there was a song I was taught ages ago that never got used that helps uncover hidden secrets. This is absolutely terrible pacing and goes against the most basic principles of game design.

It's worthwhile to note that I also still have no means of warping or fast travelling. This forces me to sit through ages of train travel. Apparently Nintendo wanted to capture the excitement of going on a road trip alone.

If there's anything positive I can say, it's that the dungeons are actually pretty good. They found a LOT of unique uses for the whip in the third dungeon. The boss was fun, too. I also appreciate the way the Song of Birds weirdly connects well with the whip, as you can call a bird down to carry you places if you grab on with the whip.

Basically, Spirit Tracks so far has been a game of decent high points, but also lengthy and very frequent low points. This game has a lot of improving to make if it wants to avoid the bottom of my list.

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-- Defeating the Running Man of Ocarina of Time in a race since 01/17/2009. --
Some more slow progress. I've completed the 4th dungeon, and am on my way to the 5th dungeon. I've also earned the Engineer Outfit.

This is a bottom tier Zelda game for sure. I know I've mentioned this before, but the dungeons are very good (the boss of the 4th dungeon is probably my favourite of all bosses between this and Phantom Hourglass), but the content between dungeons is absolutely terrible. I've never been this bored by a Zelda game before. It's just pointless train missions that involve completing some lame task for the sole purpose of padding the length of the game. This game would unironically be far better (perhaps even above average) if it just warped you to the next dungeon after you complete one, that is literally just how much of a quality contrast there is between dungeons and non-dungeons.

The Tower of Spirits (which I'm hopefully finished with) really wasn't great, but definitely was an improvement over the Temple of the Ocean King from Phantom Hourglass. A lot of the mechanics involving controlling the Phantoms hasn't been very clear or intuitive. An example was a puzzle that required you to use a Phantom to hold an arrow machine and then move the Phantom to a location where it would be useful. The controls were really what fought me on that, as I tried to give the Phantom the arrow machine with no luck, and eventually had to look up the solution, only to find that I was actually doing the right thing, it's just the controls didn't want to cooperate.

I will be greatly looking forward to finishing this game. The stylus controls have long overstayed their welcome. Even the motion controls of Skyward Sword are going to feel liberating compared to this. I've had some friends suggest straight up quitting this game and moving on based on how long it's taking me, but I'm remaining committed to fully finishing this playthrough.

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-- Defeating the Running Man of Ocarina of Time in a race since 01/17/2009. --
It really baffles me that they went so all-in on touch controls instead of just using them for aiming and stuff like that. Using the D-pad to move and L for the sword (with a lefty option that used the face buttons and R) with no other changes would have been a substantial improvement.
This is my signature. It exists to keep people from skipping the last line of my posts.
I definitely recall liking the bosses in Spirit Tracks. All my friends liked Spirit Tracks more than Phantom Hourglass. Both of them get pretty tiresome, but I got more annoyed with Spirit Tracks overall. The Pan Flute always screwed up for me, I got so tired of the train-tracks - the open concept ocean was just slightly more interesting.

I also never beat the final boss in Spirit Tracks back when I was 19/20, then got rid of it....which kinda stinks because I've beaten almost every Zelda game, and that one sticks out.
girls like my fa
No real update this week as I haven't played at all. Work has been crazy busy this week, plus I'll be busy with Thanksgiving this weekend, and I already know work will be busy next week, too. It's hard to justify spending the little free time I have playing a game I'm not enjoying.

adjl posted...
It really baffles me that they went so all-in on touch controls instead of just using them for aiming and stuff like that. Using the D-pad to move and L for the sword (with a lefty option that used the face buttons and R) with no other changes would have been a substantial improvement.

Especially for Spirit Tracks. I get trying it for Phantom Hourglass because the novelty of the DS was still new but by the time Spirit Tracks released, the DS was already an aging system. Spirit Tracks' issues go much further than the controls, though. The entire train system becomes uninteresting within minutes and it drags out the length of the game far longer than it needs to be.

ReturnOfFa posted...
I definitely recall liking the bosses in Spirit Tracks. All my friends liked Spirit Tracks more than Phantom Hourglass. Both of them get pretty tiresome, but I got more annoyed with Spirit Tracks overall. The Pan Flute always screwed up for me, I got so tired of the train-tracks - the open concept ocean was just slightly more interesting.

I also never beat the final boss in Spirit Tracks back when I was 19/20, then got rid of it....which kinda stinks because I've beaten almost every Zelda game, and that one sticks out.

The ocean was much more interesting due to its open world nature, and not to mention that the warp system in Phantom Hourglass was way better. I haven't unlocked any warps in Spirit Tracks because they generally are out of the way, plus they are just warp points between two locations, rather than being able to warp FROM anywhere like you could in PH. There isn't a real point to them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiCtAUrZbUk
-- Defeating the Running Man of Ocarina of Time in a race since 01/17/2009. --
faramir77 posted...
No real update this week as I haven't played at all. Work has been crazy busy this week, plus I'll be busy with Thanksgiving this weekend, and I already know work will be busy next week, too. It's hard to justify spending the little free time I have playing a game I'm not enjoying.

Especially for Spirit Tracks. I get trying it for Phantom Hourglass because the novelty of the DS was still new but by the time Spirit Tracks released, the DS was already an aging system. Spirit Tracks' issues go much further than the controls, though. The entire train system becomes uninteresting within minutes and it drags out the length of the game far longer than it needs to be.

The ocean was much more interesting due to its open world nature, and not to mention that the warp system in Phantom Hourglass was way better. I haven't unlocked any warps in Spirit Tracks because they generally are out of the way, plus they are just warp points between two locations, rather than being able to warp FROM anywhere like you could in PH. There isn't a real point to them.
I seem to recall having to work pretty hard for those warp points too, in Spirit Tracks. But that was something like 13 years ago. The train stuff ends up being like, 50% or more of the game.

Enjoy not playing them for a bit, ahahaha.
girls like my fa
The curse has been lifted. Spirit Tracks is over. Thank God.

The trials to the 5th dungeon were annoying. The first trial required you to battle another monster in a tunnel (you had to encounter one earlier in the game), but this one was way harder. Your train only can take 4 hits so I had two game overs. What makes it worse is that when you start the game up again, it spawns you far away from the tunnel, so you have to annoyingly travel to that tunnel again. Absolute terrible game design. The other trials weren't as bad but also just felt like pointless busywork.

The 5th dungeon itself was the weakest of them all. The boss was basically the same as Stallord from Twilight Princess except not as fun . The item in that dungeon, the Sand Wand , was conceptually a neat idea, but nothing about it really resonated with me.

The way your receive the Lokomo Sword is literally the most insanely idiotic thing I've seen in this entire franchise, as well as being the biggest plot buzzkill by an absolute mile. Anjean had it this entire time but purposely didn't give it to you for reasons she never explains. She entrusted you with the Spirit Train but chose not to give you the very useful Lokomo Sword until the very end.

The final trip through the Tower of Spirits was probably the most advanced sequence of puzzles I've seen in the series. This might be a good thing, but I've been so thoroughly exhausted of playing this game that I couldn't appreciate it, I just wanted the game to end.

The final boss was dumb. The story ends in a boring way. I don't even care to elaborate on either of those things any further. It just isn't worth my time.

I have no clue why I ever thought this game was better than Phantom Hourglass. This is the biggest surprise I've had in this playthrough, I remembered Spirit Tracks as being one of the better portable Zelda games, but there is no way I'd think this now. It's absolute bottom tier. I'd rather play Four Swords Adventures five times in a row than play Spirit Tracks again even once. There are some decent parts to Spirit Tracks, but the overwhelming negatives cannot be ignored. It's like the developers forgot to consider that games are supposed to be fun. It took me nearly 2 months to muster up enough interest to play this, it truly felt like a chore. My disappointment in this game has nothing to do with fatigue of the series, I would love to play a great Zelda like Ocarina of Time or Majora's Mask again right now.

Here's my unsurprising updated ranking of the series so far:

  1. OoT
  2. MM
  3. ALttP
  4. TP
  5. WW
  6. OoS
  7. OoA
  8. PH
  9. MC
  10. LA
  11. AoL
  12. LoZ
  13. FSA
  14. ST
I'll begin Skyward Sword soon. I'm going to play the Switch version, as I've owned it for a while but never played through it. There are only 5 Zelda games to go. I doubt I'll finish before 2025 but I definitely hope to be done before this topic has been up for a full year.

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-- Defeating the Running Man of Ocarina of Time in a race since 01/17/2009. --
Youre playing the HD version on the Switch right? I found the best controls were with my pro controller and using the right thumb stick to swing the sword but Im interested to see what you think. I never had much of an issue with the controls, but apparently the original game had bad control issues
Big yellow joint big yellow joint I'll meet you down at the big yellow joint
@faramir77 Congratulations!!! All of your experiences with Spirit Tracks has reinforced all of my memories of it. I tried the final boss twice I think (I was 20, so at least 13 years ago) and it was so stupid. I don't want a goddamn train puzzle for a goddamn final Zelda boss fight.

I'd say you're past the hump of absolute clunkers in the series. Unless...are you playing Tri Force Heroes? I've definitely seen some positive takes on it, but it's definitely not overall popular at all, as I'm sure you're aware. I bought it late and played it a few times online during COVID so it took forever to matchmake but there were still people online. Might be worth trying to beat it online with folks since you can easily do the DNS hack for new 3DS servers. It's just gonna be way more frustrating as a single-player experience.
girls like my fa
FrozenBananas posted...
I never had much of an issue with the controls, but apparently the original game had bad control issues

I didn't find the Wii controls to be a problem (aside from the harp, which is the worst instrument in the series by far), but I know a lot of people did. I've seen the theory that some of the WMPs packaged in the bundle version of the game were defective and therefore didn't register the controls right, which would make a lot of sense because many people only got a WMP through that bundle and never used it for any other games to be able to troubleshoot it, but I've never seen that theory confirmed or debunked.

ReturnOfFa posted...
Tri Force Heroes? I've definitely seen some positive takes on it, but it's definitely not overall popular at all, as I'm sure you're aware. I bought it late and played it a few times online during COVID so it took forever to matchmake but there were still people online. Might be worth trying to beat it online with folks since you can easily do the DNS hack for new 3DS servers. It's just gonna be way more frustrating as a single-player experience.

I beat it solo a couple months ago. It's a little awkward at times (especially solo) and it's definitely not typical Zelda, but I had a pretty good time with it. Not good enough to put serious effort into farming all the costumes and clearing all the challenges, but a good time nonetheless.
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I've started Skyward Sword! I've completed the first dungeon and opened the path to the next region.

FrozenBananas posted...
Youre playing the HD version on the Switch right? I found the best controls were with my pro controller and using the right thumb stick to swing the sword but Im interested to see what you think. I never had much of an issue with the controls, but apparently the original game had bad control issues

Yup, but I'm using the Joycon motion controls. I think the Wii controls were better, I don't like how often you need to refocus the controls in this version. It also often doesn't seem to accurately accept the direction of sword attacks. It hasn't been a huge issue yet but there have been a few moments where it just felt cheap.

ReturnOfFa posted...
I'd say you're past the hump of absolute clunkers in the series. Unless...are you playing Tri Force Heroes?

No, I don't consider it canon, regardless of what Nintendo or the fanbase says. I'll agree I'm past the worst of the series, although Skyward Sword hasn't ever been one of my favourites. Generally 2007 to 2012 were dark times for the Zelda franchise.

So far, Skyward Sword hasn't been too bad. As clunky as the motion controls can be, I appreciate that they went this route. There was no way the Wii could go through it's entire generation without having near 1 to 1 sword controls in a Zelda game. I'm not sure that flying or controlling the beetle item needed to have motion controls, though.

The HD version on Switch is a big improvement in terms of visuals. I'm loving the 60 fps, and character models in particular seem to look way better (with the exception of Link, who looks as awkward as he did in the Wii version). The environments seem to be lacking though, I'm not sure what they could have done other than a more thorough graphical overhaul involving updating 3D models.

Playing these games so closely in succession has highlighted minor things I've not noticed before. Zelda's voice when calling out to Link is the same voice clip as Medli from Wind Waker. Also, the sound effect when Zelda confronts Groose is the same one they later used for cooking a meal in Breath of the Wild.

The story is better than the DS Zeldas by a lot, but still nothing impressive. It always given me a "straight to VHS Disney movie" vibe. Groose is entertaining, though. In terms of gameplay, the first dungeon was decent, just thematically boring. The boss was a great way to introduce the main villain Ghirahim , plus it utilized the motion controls very well.

I'll end this minor update with perhaps the most unfortunate sequence of three words this series has ever piled together. The rest of that sentence does some HEAVY lifting.

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-- Defeating the Running Man of Ocarina of Time in a race since 01/17/2009. --
I've completed the second dungeon in Skyward Sword and have just entered the third region.

The game is alright so far. It doesn't bore me like Spirit Tracks. The Switch version doesn't seem to control quite as well as the Wii version, but the graphical overhaul they gave it was a massive improvement. Screenshots don't do it justice, it looks way better than the blurry mess that the Wii version was.

I can appreciate Skyward Sword's attempt to make the segments in between dungeons almost like a dungeon itself. However this creates a few issues.

Firstly, there's a jarring disconnect between the environment and the tacit assumption that the ground world is supposed to be an actual inhabited place. The developers didn't build the environment to make it seem like an actual place things could live, they built it to accommodate various puzzles on your way to the next dungeon. There isn't anything inherently wrong with this, but it does change the way I as the player look at the world from a plot point of view. The closest it comes to being "wrong" is just how uncomfortable it is to backtrack through sections of the overworld that you've already completed.

Secondly, there's an element of fatigue that sets in when you're constantly encountering puzzles. Zelda games typically balance puzzles, combat, and general exploration, but Skyward Sword pretty much removes the exploration aspect.

On the topic of exploration, the sky islands are such a case of lost potential. There's no motivation for exploring the islands unless you've unlocked treasure on an island from the Goddess Cubes you can find. Flying to each little island just to get the treasure also feels a bit like a waste of time, since it typically doesn't add any difficulty, making me wonder why the treasure wasn't given as soon as you found the Goddess Cube in the first place.

Dungeon design has been mediocre. The second dungeon has some interesting gimmicks like balancing on ball while rolling across lava, but nothing really stands out as overly fun. I liked the concept of the second boss as being a monster trapped inside the boulder that chased you down the ramp when you found the boss key , but mechnanically that boss wasn't particularly interesting, like a more complex yet notably less fun version of King Dodongo from Ocarina of Time .

Aside from those criticisms, Skyward Sword has felt like a very mid tier Zelda game, and I actually do really like the motion controls, even if they aren't accurate. I've always placed Skyward Sword as the weakest 3D Zelda game, which it very well might remain, but I am gaining a new found appreciation for it with this recent playthrough.

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-- Defeating the Running Man of Ocarina of Time in a race since 01/17/2009. --
Monopoman posted...
You think TP is long wait until you get to Breath of the Wild unless you are damn good at skipping shit and fighting bosses before you have the right stuff it's over 55 hours.

I hear Tears of the Kingdom is even longer but I have not beaten that yet so can't comment.
Don't get me wrong, Tears of the Kingdom is probably one of my favorite games and I really appreciate most of what it did, especially from a gameplay perspective. But the sheer size of this game reaches excessive levels. Literally over twice the size of BotW, and most of that extra space is severely underutilized. I've played through BotW completely several times, but every time I try to play TotK again, I just get burnt out which is a real shame. Because at the same time, all of the additions and adjustments to gameplay have spoiled me to the point that I can't go back to BotW as easily anymore.
other than the 10 Imprisoned boss fights, the only other thing I dislike about the game is that they really only have 3 areas, and you just go back to those same areas multiple times
Big yellow joint big yellow joint I'll meet you down at the big yellow joint
Yeah I quit Skyward Sword some time after the Ship dungeon because people said it was all downhill from there and I wasn't enjoying it that much
What would Bligh do?
It's been a while since I've given an update, but I've made a lot of progress. I've beaten the third and fourth dungeons, as well as completed some minor sidequests for Heart Pieces and wallet upgrades. The only item upgrade I've done so far (aside from my Iron Shield) is my Slingshot, but I'm hoping to be able to upgrade a ton once I return to Skyloft.

While Skyward Sword definitely hasn't shined as much as the other 3D Zeldas, it's not a bad game by any stretch. As I've mentioned before, I really do like the motion controls (for the most part), even when sword attacks don't register properly (which happens way more often than it should). Flying really shouldn't use motion controls though, and swimming is absolutely miserable with motion controls (I have no clue how they mastered it so well with the Zora form in Majora's Mask and yet never have come close to making it control as well ever since).

The third and fourth dungeons were both way better than the first or second ones. The fourth dungeons in particular sticks out as a very unique concept in the series, seemingly telling a wordless story with heaven and hell tropes. The boss of the fourth dungeon, Koloktos, was spectacular, and always gets praise from others as being one of the best in the series. I've never gone that far with my praise for it, but I have to admit that it was very fun tearing that boss to pieces.

I have to give this game a lot of credit for making an honest effort to ensure we consistently see Ghirahim's presence as the main villain. This has been a glowing weakness in the story of almost every single Zelda game, but Ghirahim very frequently is present to cause you grief. The underlying motive for Ghirahim however is poorly established, and whatever they were trying to go for in terms of keeping Zelda's mission a secret from the player hasn't really shown any emotional depth.

The cutscenes are generally bad. Fi is the most poorly animated character I've seen in the series. I desperately want to skip any cutscenes where she "sings" (with no attempt by the developers to sync her mouth or head movements with the song) or dances around while providing verbal plot exposition, but I don't want to miss any details that could affect my interpretation of this game for this playthrough.

I've only had one Silent Realm segment so far, but they're really not fun. The fetch quest that the Water Dragon sends you on is borderline insulting, and I very much remember that they send you on an even worse one in the late game .

I don't see myself doing much more sidequesting, and I'm now at least halfway through the game in terms of the main plot. My save file says I've been playing for about 14 hours. The only other sidequest I'll likely do (or at least try) is the one to get the Hylian Shield , but I remember that being very late game. I'll be interested to see how long the game takes me in total.

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-- Defeating the Running Man of Ocarina of Time in a race since 01/17/2009. --
I've made steady progress in Skyward Sword this week, as I've just finished the fifth dungeon. The amount of gameplay between the fourth and fifth dungeons was a LOT, so much that it feels weird to say I've only completed one dungeon since the last update. I've probably put 6 or more hours of gameplay in over the past week, with most of that being direct story progression (although I've purchased the Goddess Shield and have upgraded virtually all of my items and equipment).

The second Silent Realm was a fair bit more challenging than the first. I got spotted by a lantern carrying ghost right after I found the last tear or whatever, but I amazingly managed to dodge the literal army of enemies that converged towards me as I raced across the map back to the safe spot to finish the Silent Realm mission. As thrilling as that was, I'm still not convinced that the Silent Realms were a positive inclusion in this game.

Fi is very noticeably less annoying in the Switch version. She doesn't intrude and delay gameplay nearly as much as she did in the original Wii version. There have been some moments that I think could have been fixed. One that really sticks out is when I unlocked the Goddess treasure chest in the Bazaar on Skyloft, and when I approached it, Fi interrupted to tell me all about how to unlock these treasure chests, despite the fact I had unlocked like 10 of them prior to this.

The Sand Sea region was by far the best region encountered in the game so far. What an absolutely genius use of the Timeshift Stones . It's a shame they didn't provide more opportunities to sail around in the boat, which was a ton of fun . The three or four locations you need to stop at along the way weren't as interesting, however. The very purpose of being there was also really poorly defined, which made the whole thing just feel like padding (which, to be fair, it really was).

The fifth dungeon was conceptually another very interesting dungeon. Being able to interact with the Timeshift Stone on the upper deck while in the lower decks through the floor grates up above progvided a lot of unique puzzles, but the idea got stale after they made you do that the fourth or fifth time.

With how far I am in the game, and how much is still left, it's starting to become jarring just how little the concerns and trials Link faces are affecting the people of Skyloft. I guess that's the point, given that many people there aren't even aware a land exists below the clouds. However, there is a conspicuous lack of concern for Zelda being missing this entire time. Citizens instead are worried over mostly trivial things like how many push ups they can do, the variety of bugs they've caught, a cat stuck on a roof, and whether or not someone romantically is interested in them. Yes, I get that most Zelda games have characters that want you to complete minor tasks, but it's very weird that there hardly isn't any indication of concern amongst the people of Skyloft.

For an example of this, there's a lady whose Loftwing bird gets injured, stranding her on an island. After rescuing her, she unintentionally reveals just how little people care about what Link has been working towards by indirectly stating that she isn't even aware that Zelda has gone missing . I'll post that conversation as my photo for this post.

The upcoming parts of the game aren't nearly as fun, at least according to my memory. Skyward Sword has certainly been a huge improvement over the mediocre DS games, though. I'm hoping to make a fair bit more progress before the end of this long weekend.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiCtAUrZbUk
-- Defeating the Running Man of Ocarina of Time in a race since 01/17/2009. --
Just a smaller update, I've finished the sixth dungeon. There wasn't a lot of gameplay between dungeon 5 and 6, maybe only about an hour, then another hour to complete dungeon 6.

That being said, that hour between the two dungeons was easily the worst stretch of gameplay in this game yet. It consists of a Silent Realms trial (ugh) followed soon after by a completely pointless mission where you have to protect Scrapper from enemy attacks from the bottom of the mountain all the way to the top solely because he's too stubborn to just fly to the mountain top himself. This was shameless padding, there's no other explanation for it.

The sixth dungeon itself was extremely linear and not as interesting as any of the previous dungeons in Skyward Sword. The item ( the Mogma Mitts ) is pretty lame, too. The boss, Ghirahim for the second time , was admittedly a lot of fun, but definitely a lazy design choice .

It's very rewarding however to finally see the Master Sword created. It's also very interesting to see it take a similar incomplete form like it did in Wind Waker. I know it only stays in this form for a very short while before it gets upgraded to the full thing.

One thing that doesn't make sense, nor do I think it ever gets explained properly, is why Link appears to receive each piece of the Triforce after obtaining each Sacred Flame. Other games in the series make it a huge deal to acquire the pieces, but this game treats it like a throwaway cutscenes moment. I know later in the game you actually acquire the three pieces, but...what's the connection?

I can't remember how much more of the game I have, but I'm certain I'm at least 80% done. I don't know if I'll bother to get the Hylian Shield , as I kind of just want to finish this game already. I've put over 20 hours into it.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiCtAUrZbUk
-- Defeating the Running Man of Ocarina of Time in a race since 01/17/2009. --
I've completed Skyward Sword.

I'm happy to say that this game was better than I remembered. I've played through it perhaps 5 or 6 times in the past, but this was the most enjoyable playthrough of this game I've ever had. I'd attribute that to this being the HD version on the Switch, rather than the Wii version.

The plot had ups and downs. I liked the emotional weight provided from Zelda revealing her true identity as Hylia while apologizing for using Link to achieve her goals , as well as Fi saying goodbye and that her and Link will meet again many times in other lives . The amount of character development Groose had was excellent as well, I really like how he evolves as a personality.

Some things I didn't like about the plot include the poor explanation about why Link has the Triforce mark before ever getting the Triforce, which seems to contradict what previous games have done . I also think the entire Song of the Hero plot was completely pointless and served to pad out the game with uninteresting content (although, each of the three segments of that mission only took 30 minutes each, almost exactly the same, so maybe not worth complaining about). Lastly, I really don't like how Demise states that he will repeatedly reincarnate, referring to Ganondorf, which I feel unnecessarily cheapens Ganondorf's character while adding nothing to Demise's character.

The final dungeon was incredibly unique, and I loved every part of it. The lead up to the final boss was great, too.

The motion controls, while far from perfect, definitely made this a better game than it would have been without them. Skyward Sword still stands as the weakest 3D Zelda in my view, but it's not a bad game by any stretch. I'll place it more or less on par with the Oracle games, fitting into the very wide gap that exists between them and Phantom Hourglass.

Only four Zelda games to go. I'll begin A Link Between Worlds this week. ALBW was the last game in the series that I replayed prior to stating this playthrough back in March (I think I replayed ALBW in December or January), but I'm hoping to have a fresh look at it after playing the rest of the series in release order.

Here's my updated ranking:

  1. OoT
  2. MM
  3. ALttP
  4. TP
  5. WW
  6. OoS
  7. OoA
  8. SS
  9. PH
  10. MC
  11. LA
  12. AoL
  13. LoZ
  14. FSA
  15. ST
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiCtAUrZbUk
-- Defeating the Running Man of Ocarina of Time in a race since 01/17/2009. --
No real update quite yet, I've been extremely busy with work. I've started A Link Between Worlds, but I've only just made it to the first dungeon (which is like 30 minutes into the game).

It's an absolute joy to play though. Playing these games in release order really helps illustrate just how much of a return to form that ALBW was, especially after the lackluster DS games. The only thing I wish they didn't remove was the ability the write on your map. They instead replaced that with the ability to place pins on the map, but that doesn't really help.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiCtAUrZbUk
-- Defeating the Running Man of Ocarina of Time in a race since 01/17/2009. --
Time for a real update: I've completed the first three dungeons of A Link Between Worlds, and have just received the Master Sword.

This game is awesome. Very little time feels wasted while playing it, unlike pretty much every single Zelda game I've played in this playthrough since Wind Waker. There hasn't been any section that felt like pointless padding, everything has either been on purpose or my own willful exploring.

The item rental/purchase system is a nice new spin on the age old dynamic the series established, regarding acquiring a new item in each dungeon. It's interesting to think that Skyward Sword was the last Zelda game to follow that structure (I still haven't played Echoes of Wisdom, so maybe that one returns to it, too?). The system in ALBW allows flexibility while also balancing risk; I wouldn't want to rent too many items at risk of having a game over and losing them all, but it's been at the cost of not being able to obtain sidequest tasks. It actually suits my focus on completing the main story very well, so it's pretty great that Nintendo chose to let the player control the pace of the game in that regard.

I'm not sure how to explain it, but ALBW gets away with reusing the overworld of ALttP without it seeming shameful. It plays up to nostalgia a lot, but never so much that it takes away the ability for ALBW to have its own unique character and charm.

This game really feels like Nintendo returning to its legendary roots. This was the end of the dark days of the Zelda franchise. I'm going to really enjoy continuing to play this one.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiCtAUrZbUk
-- Defeating the Running Man of Ocarina of Time in a race since 01/17/2009. --
Just read through this entire topic. I think the only difference between your ranking list so far and mine is that I would have Link's Awakening a few slots higher. But then that was the first Zelda I ever owned myself and completed so I have a LOT of nostalgia for it. I also didn't play PH or ST so they would be absent from my list. I only played through LBW once but I recall liking it quite a bit. Unfortunately I then sold it because I was poor at the time and needed a few bucks. Wish I hadn't.

Oddly I never finished skyward sword or either of the two switch Zeldas. I like the latter two much better than SS but I still haven't actually finished any of the 3D Zelda games from the last decade. BotW and TotK just gradually lost my interest.
\\[T]// Praise the Sun
man101 posted...
Just read through this entire topic. I think the only difference between your ranking list so far and mine is that I would have Link's Awakening a few slots higher. But then that was the first Zelda I ever owned myself and completed so I have a LOT of nostalgia for it. I also didn't play PH or ST so they would be absent from my list. I only played through LBW once but I recall liking it quite a bit. Unfortunately I then sold it because I was poor at the time and needed a few bucks. Wish I hadn't.

Thanks for reading it dude, I plan on saving everything I've written in this topic.

Link's Awakening is a solid game, and I could hear an argument for bumping it up a bit. I feel like PH, MC, and LA are all in the same tier, at very similar levels to each other. In my view, those three really could be put in any order. However, I don't see an argument to be made for putting it above even SS, and both Oracle games improved on the foundation that LA created far too much to ignore. The LA remake on the Switch definitely would sit higher on the tier list, but still not top tier in my view.

I've been trying to put aside nostalgia bias as I've been going through this, but at the end of the day, it's really just subjective.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiCtAUrZbUk
-- Defeating the Running Man of Ocarina of Time in a race since 01/17/2009. --
I've made some more progress in ALBW. I've since completed the Thieves Hideout, Dark Palace, and Skull Woods dungeons (in that order). I also have upgraded to the Tempered Sword.

It's funny how much greater this game is than the several Zelda games that released immediately before it. ALBW is a very simplistic Zelda game, but it leads to a "no nonsense" experience where...well, where it's just fun. Yuga isn't the most fascinating villain, but his purpose after the third dungeon becomes obvious that he's just serving as a vector to revive Ganon .

Many of the bosses so far have been rehashed versions of the bosses from ALttP, but for the most part, they've been made new enough not to feel stale. The boss of the Thieves Hideout, Blind , was probably my favourite one in this game so far with just how wonderfully it utilized the wall merge ability to hide on his shield . The only boss I haven't liked was the one for Skull Woods, which was a giant floating armoured hand that smashed the ground, which you dodge by repeatedly wall merging . My issue was the boss doesn't really evolve its tactics and it drags on way too long.

The dungeons are very well designed, and make great use of a central theme, especially the dungeons in Lorule. The fact that most dungeons don't contain a new item is somewhat disappointing, even if it's just a consequence of the item purchase system. They tried to find a middle ground by hiding the Master Ore chunks in the dungeons but it just doesn't feel the same.

I've always been a huge fan of ALBW, and this playthrough is just further reinforcing this. I don't think any other point in this series was in such desperate need for a strong Zelda game. I'm not going to be doing many sidequests (and I'll completely avoid the Maiamai collecting), so with that in mind, I'm at least 60% of the way through the game now.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiCtAUrZbUk
-- Defeating the Running Man of Ocarina of Time in a race since 01/17/2009. --
A relatively quick update this time. Since the last update, I've completed the Desert Palace and the Swamp Palace. With the Titan's Mitt from Desert Palace, I was able to find and obtain the final Master Ore to fully upgrade to the Golden Sword. Honestly not crazy about the design of it in ALBW compared the art of it from ALttP, but aside from its looks, it's a massive strength upgrade.

I'm appreciative of the ways this game utilizes items in terms of connecting to the central ability to merge into walls. I particularly like the opportunity the Hookshot provides as a means of accessing a distance wall so you can wall merge to it before falling down. The merge ability never seems to get old and flows incredibly naturally with the design of the game.

These past two bosses have been a bit lacking, however. Both were incredibly easy and neither really innovated on anything. I'd be more upset about that if it weren't for the fact that the game is very engaging, it's just striking that weaker Zelda games sometimes had better bosses than this one.

I'm just heading towards the Ice Ruins on Lorule's Death Mountain (very strange that they swapped the locations of it and Turtle Rock compared to where they were in ALttP). I love the remade Dark World Death Mountain music, it sounds inspired by the Imperial March from Star Wars or something. After Ice Ruins, I'll just have Turtle Rock and Lorule Castle left.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiCtAUrZbUk
-- Defeating the Running Man of Ocarina of Time in a race since 01/17/2009. --
I've completed A Link Between Worlds! What an absolutely awesome game. The entire game was solid from start to finish, with the only part that felt tedious being right around my last update. You're required to fall between moving platforms inside a cave on Death Mountain, and if you miss, you need to completely start over. Just felt unnecessary, and the difficulty of it really felt artificial.

Aside from that, the game was exceptional. The item rental/purchase system provides a fair bit of flexibility to how you play. In the end, since I did very minimal exploration, I didn't have enough money to buy all the items, so I still had a few items as a rental instead (which doesn't matter unless you get a game over, in which case you lose those rental items, but that never happened for me).

The dungeon design is great. Clearly they wanted to reinvent the dungeons from ALttP, but every single one felt more unique. The dungeons in ALttP had individual character that was good for its time, but ALBW really shows just how far the series has come since then with how much originality each dungeon had.

The bosses leave a bit to be desired, though. Earlier bosses were great, but the boss of the Ice Ruins and the boss of Turtle Rock were effectively the exact same thing. The Turtle Rock boss in particular was noticeably less fun than the boss of Turtle Rock in ALttP, which this boss was clearly based off of .

However, I'll admit that the final boss was fantastic and the plot set up for it was awesome. On paper, it seems like ALBW puts almost all the plot progression in the final few minutes, but for some reason it just works. The twist that Hilda was working with Yuga to revive Ganon this entire time was a big surprise to me the first time I played this, and the second twist where Link and Zelda use the Triforce to restore the Lorulean Triforce as a reward for Hilda admitting her mistakes was very uplifting.

A lesson I think Nintendo learned going into this was that sometimes less is more. The plot didn't need heavy exposition. Gameplay should always have a purpose, and should always be fun, and shouldn't be just a bunch of jobs in a row like it was with Spirit Tracks. This game managed to respect the nostalgia that ALttP provides while also refining what makes classic Zelda such an incredible series, to a degree that I can confidently say it surpasses ALttP in terms of overall presentation.

I only have three Zelda games to go in this journey. The next two are by far the largest in the series. Both BotW and TotK have a lot of flexibility in terms of how they can be played, but for the purpose of ensuring consistency with how I've approached other games in the series, I will require myself to complete all the dungeons as well as obtain the Master Sword in each game. I'll begin BotW this weekend.

As usual, my updated series ranking is as follows:

  1. OoT
  2. MM
  3. ALBW
  4. ALttP
  5. TP
  6. WW
  7. OoS
  8. OoA
  9. SS
  10. PH
  11. MC
  12. LA
  13. AoL
  14. LoZ
  15. FSA
  16. ST
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiCtAUrZbUk
-- Defeating the Running Man of Ocarina of Time in a race since 01/17/2009. --
As much as I liked the concept of the item rentals, I did find that they fell a bit flat in that nothing really stopped you from just renting everything at the same time once you'd accumulated even a half-decent number of rupees, so it didn't actually end up feeling like you were making meaningful choices about which parts of the map to open up at any given time. I liked the flexibility, but functionally there wouldn't have been that much of a difference if they just gave you all the items at the start and called it a day. The upgrades still provided a sense of progression, but not a tremendously meaningful one because they didn't add any new functionality and just amounted to collecting rupees. I don't know that SS' material grinding was necessarily better, since it got a bit tedious and arbitrary, but it did mean that grinding for an upgrade was specific to a given item and not just making generic currency that could be used for anything if I changed my mind, and I generally find that feels more satisfying.

On the whole, though, I agree that it was an excellent game.
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adjl posted...
As much as I liked the concept of the item rentals, I did find that they fell a bit flat in that nothing really stopped you from just renting everything at the same time once you'd accumulated even a half-decent number of rupees, so it didn't actually end up feeling like you were making meaningful choices about which parts of the map to open up at any given time. I liked the flexibility, but functionally there wouldn't have been that much of a difference if they just gave you all the items at the start and called it a day. The upgrades still provided a sense of progression, but not a tremendously meaningful one because they didn't add any new functionality and just amounted to collecting rupees. I don't know that SS' material grinding was necessarily better, since it got a bit tedious and arbitrary, but it did mean that grinding for an upgrade was specific to a given item and not just making generic currency that could be used for anything if I changed my mind, and I generally find that feels more satisfying.

On the whole, though, I agree that it was an excellent game.

Yeah that was my biggest gripe with the game as well. Zelda games have never really known what to do with money or had any sort of interesting economy and while that was their best attempt at addressing that issue, they consequently took away the joy of finding a new tool in each dungeon. Which is half the driving factor in a Zelda game. Also why I can't say that I cared for botw or TotK as much. Great open world? Yes. But getting all the tools more or less immediately and then having only 4 of those sad things they call dungeons? I feel like an old man but that ain't my Zelda.
\\[T]// Praise the Sun
I feel like the Shrines in BotW and TotK are a great substitute for the dungeons. Each Shrine is like a one floor mini dungeon. I particularly like the ones in TotK where you have to find missing Shrine crystal and return it
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man101 posted...
they consequently took away the joy of finding a new tool in each dungeon. Which is half the driving factor in a Zelda game.

Aside from being the driving factor, it also meant that the game was pretty limited in opportunities to use a mix of tools. When the dungeon (and therefore dungeon item) order is fixed, you can make puzzles in/around dungeon #3 that use items from dungeons 1 and 2. If it's completely open-ended, every dungeon has to be designed around the assumption that you'll only have that dungeon's item, and that forces things to be less complex. Now, plenty of previous Zelda games have also been guilty of having dungeons that only really focus on the one item and never using that item again (TP was really bad for this, particularly with the spinner and ball+chain), but that's just a design failure and not a limitation of the core design philosophy.
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Those are all good points. I honestly just appreciated that they tried something different. Yes, you could have rented all the items relatively early, but that increases the risk that a game over would provide. That said, the combat difficulty isn't particularly high in ALBW, but the unknown capabilities of bosses always make that a looming danger. I only rented items when the game made that the only choice (you can't start to purchase the items until a certain point in the game).

The dungeon rewards were usually lackluster, instead serving to upgrade existing abilities. The overall quality of the dungeons and gameplay in the overworld really made me not care about the lack of significant dungeon rewards. Finding Master Ore was very satisfying though, and I appreciate that you need to find two before you can use it to upgrade the Master Sword.

It's a big challenge designing a Zelda game that provides both open choice with progression (which has been the more modern focus) as well as the satisfaction of finding items (the more classic focus). ALBW did a great job trying to find a middle ground without significant compromise. I didn't purposely try farming for rupees, but instead once I found I had 800-1200 rupees, I was excited to return to Ravio's shop to obtain a new item.

One thing I didn't bother with at all in this playthrough (exclusively for the reason of saving time) was upgrading items by finding Maiamais. This added extra incentive to purchasing items (as you can't upgrade rented items) as well as giving you flexibility over which items to upgrade. Ultimately the item upgrades aren't at all necessary (although there was an optional location in Turtle Rock that I swear I couldn't access because I didn't have the upgraded Ice Rod), but they definitely make items more enjoyable.

I'd be interested in hearing how they could find that balance between open world and traditional design. The central abilities you get at the start of BotW and TotK are great, but maybe it would be better if you also could find new actual items in the dungeons as the game progresses that aren't explicitly required outside those dungeons but maybe provide benefits for accessing optional sidequest locations or something. Then again, as adjl mentioned, that was a criticism of TP. Ultimately I think it's more important for them not to worry about satisfying both ends of that in one game, and instead alternate between making traditional and modern style Zeldas.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiCtAUrZbUk
-- Defeating the Running Man of Ocarina of Time in a race since 01/17/2009. --
Poll of the Day » I'm going to replay all the Zelda games in release order this year
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