I'm going to replay all the Zelda games in release order this year

The biggest thing I remember about the end of TP was being genuinely surprised that I was in the last dungeon. I don't remember exactly why, but I got to the castle and the lack of "here's the final dungeon!" sort of build-up meant that I fully expected there to be more after it, only for that to be it. It's been a long time since I last played it, though, so maybe I'm misremembering and I was mostly just disappointed by the cop-out of having Ganondorf pulled out as the real villain at the last minute.

I know what you mean. I don't think I felt that way about it, but I saw Ganondorf being the true final boss a million miles away. The final dungeon to me was more like "oh okay, one more thing I guess".

Twilight Princess's plot was really just "here's a ton of ideas and characters, but we're not really going to solidly connect them". It basically is a Zelda game as if it were directed by JJ Abrams.

I've made it to the seventh dungeon in Twilight Princess.

The sixth dungeon really wasn't great, it's pretty tedious climbing all the way to the top of the dungeon just to slowly lead a statue back down. I lucked out and found the boss key just out of searching for the Heart Pieces in the dungeon, if I hadn't done that I definitely would have missed it and would have backtracked back up a few floors yet again. The boss of that dungeon was also terrible, I'd actually say it's a contender for worst 3D Zelda boss. It's a good example of why relying on the dungeon item for a boss fight isn't always the best idea design wise. Link's Awakening did that with the Eagle's Tower boss (the item in that dungeon was the Mirror Shield), and that boss was a lot of fun despite not needing the Mirror Shield at all. The Dominion Rod is really just the Command Melody from Wind Waker made into an item, but somehow with even less utility.

The segment between the sixth and seventh dungeon wasn't as bad as I remembered. You need to find the secret words in the ancient sky language hidden around Hyrule. In a way, it plays a similar padding role as the Triforce shard quest in Wind Waker, but not even CLOSE to as miserable. Still, instead of finding 6 different words, it probably would have been better if they had shortened it to finding just 4 different words. It wasn't fun finding them, just tedious.

Bringing the broken ancient Sky Cannon to Lake Hylia was a great way to connect your current objective to a minor character that you've interacted with a few times. I really like the dialogue he has, calling it a "rig", which adds an interesting dynamic to his character showing how his business is more like a passionate hobby of his. It's so weird but adds such a great sense of humanity to that character, oddly more so than the game does for other more major characters.

Lastly, Ilia gives you the "Horse Call" item, which honestly feels way too late in the game to be useful. There have been a few times I've encountered where I'm scrambling looking for a wild reed to use to call my horse (PotD), but I can say with some certainty that at this very late point in the game I'm not likely to even ride the horse again at all.

I've obtained all the Hidden Skills, too. They were maybe a bit too subtle with revealing that the Heros's Shade is the spirit of the Hero of Time, which is a MASSIVE revelation and perhaps the only time in the series where two different Links meet . Sometimes subtlelty is great, but this was a bit too flimsy.

I'm hoping to be done by tomorrow. There's no chance I'll be done this and the two DS Zeldas by the end of August now, but I'll at least have a good start on Phantom Hourglass. Work starts for me again on the 26th, so progress will slow to the same snail pace it was between March and June. I will absolutely save playing Echoes of Wisdom until I've finished this entire playthrough, though!

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I've finally finished Twilight Princess! What an incredibly long game, by far the longest in the series so far. I left the game paused for long periods of time so my in game timer isn't accurate (it says 67 hours lmao) but I'd bet it likely took in the 25-30 hour range. Most of the game wasn't pointless filler either, so I can respect that.

The seventh dungeon was great both in its concept and its delivery as a dungeon. The item (Double Clawshots) added a surprisingly fun new gimmick to an age old item in the series. I absolutely love the boss, Argorok, even if he is a bit too easy. Very good idea to have his presence continuously known and seen as you compete that dungeon.

The eighth dungeon, however, was pretty uninteresting. Leading the Sols away from the giant hands that chase you was one of the most tense things in the series so far, but not particularly fun. The boss of that dungeon, Zant, was very well designed though.

The ninth and final dungeon was short but sweet. Defeating King Bulblin for the fourth time was a great way to unexpectedly wrap up a character arc that you didn't expect needing wrapping up. I also loved when the group from Telmas's bar comes to save you .The final boss lacks difficulty but feels fulfilling to complete nevertheless.

One minor thing I've noticed are the sound effects. The quality ranges from great to poor. I have a new surround sound system which might be the reason I've noticed it so much, but some sound effects are clearly reused from Wind Waker (not necessarily a bad thing). The sound effects of armour falling off Argorok (the boss of the seventh dungeon) sound very similar to the barrel smashing sound from Donkey Kong 64, to the point where I think it straight up was the same one. It's a very distinct sound, and I'm kind of amazed I've noticed that.

The game doesn't do the best job at tying up loose ends, or meaningfully connecting it to previous storylines. The revelation that Midna is the princess of the Twilight Realm was presented as if it's a major spoiler, when really it seems like a basic assumption from the start of the game. The Fused Shadows getting used a few times in the last minutes of the game only to be destroyed makes me question why they even bothered using them, or instead Zant should have destroyed them after the third dungeon. The nmotivation that Zant gives for trying to conquer Hyrule ( he was only being a servant to the Twilight Royal Family in an attempt to become part of that family ) was really weak, and made even worse by the subversion of the expectation that Zant was a badass when in reality he's an unstable silly idiot . I did catch an intersesting line from Midna, though, where she says that her people long awaited a hero to arrive as a "divine beast", which makes me wonder if the naming of the divine beasts in Breath of the Wild was deliberate .

Overall, while very flawed in regards to weaving together a meaningful or intellectually stimulating story, Twilight Princess manages to be an incredible game. The graphics were beautiful for a Gamecube game, and aside from the terrible 480p resolution I've had to endure, it stills holds up well. They took bold risks by introducing a ton of new items, or by making new changes to items we've seen in many previous Zelda games, and generally they were a major hit. Lastly, Hyrule had never come even close to being as expansive and full of life as it did in Twilight Princess. What a wonderful game.

To update my ranking of the series so far:

1. OoT
2. MM
3. ALttP
4. TP
5. WW
6. OoS
7. OoA
8. MC
9. LA
10. AoL
11. LoZ
12. FSA

I'll begin Phantom Hourglass this evening. This is very unfamiliar territory to me, as I've only played through it and Spirit Tracks once, back when each game released (and Phantom Hourglass released 17 years ago already!). I remember not liking PH at all, but I'm willing to give it a fresh and fair new opinion all these years later.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/7/73982e59.jpg

Oof, good luck with Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks.
I wasn't able to finish Spirit Tracks when I played it because my original DS microphone didn't work properly and the flute segments were actually impossible.

I've started Phantom Hourglass. I've completed the first dungeon (the Temple of Fire) as well as the first venture through the Temple of the Ocean King (ugh) to acquire the northwest ocean map. I just got the ship cannon before I saved and quit.

The game is alright so far. The controls require you to use the stylus to move around and navigate the menus, with buttons very rarely (and typically optionally) being used. I find that using the L button to select my item (the only item I have so far is the boomerang) is much faster and easier than using the touch screen button, but it takes time to get used to it, as if you let go of the L button, your item deactivates, which is a lot different than how other Zelda games work. That said, the touch screen controls aren't all that bad. It's rare that I can't get Link to control properly, and usually it has to do with getting Link to do a somersault (which requires you to draw a little circle at the edge of the touch screen very quickly, not the most user friendly thing).

I remember virtually nothing about this game. Linebeck is a fun character, and I always remembered him as being this game's sidekick, but in reality the fairy Ciela is actually the sidekick in this game, and she is completely forgettable. She uses the same "hey" and "listen" sounds as Navi from Ocarina of Time, which kind of comes across as lazy to me. I think I remember the big spoiler with both her character as well as the separate big spoiler for the old man Oshus, but I'll keep that to myself for now. If I'm correct, both of those spoilers are made pretty obvious very early in the game.

I was surprised to see "Force Gems" from Four Swords Adventures make a return, I have no memory of those at all. They don't play as integral of a role (so far), but it's a clear reference to FSA, which is a very odd choice of game to reference.

Another odd choice is this games unique approach to boss keys. They are a large item that require you to slowly carry it to the boss door, which prevents you from using your sword or items while carrying it. I appreciate the attempt to make something new in the series, but I can already tell that this is going to be used for the most aggravating puzzles in later dungeons.

I'm on my way to the second dungeon. I have no idea how many dungeons are in this game, as it's been nearly 17 years since I've played it. So far, it's better than I remembered, but still nothing spectacular to write home about.

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I've completed the first three dungeons as well as acquired the southeastern ocean map from the Temple of the Ocean King.

The game isn't holding up as well as it started. The Temple of the Ocean King is every bit as horrible as I remembered. I have no idea who at Nintendo thought it would be a good idea to backtrack through the same dungeon multiple different times, while also making sure that dungeon was a stealth mission, and ALSO making sure it has a time limit. It basically breaks all the rules for good game design, and for absolutely no good reason.

The dialogue in the game is also pretty poor, almost as if it were written as a fan fiction. Linebeck is the only character that has an interesting personality, but even then his personality is characterized by cheesy sarcastic quips and a far too one dimensional focus on acquiring treasure. The plot seems to be made up as you go, with important elements like the identity of the main villian seeming more shoehorned into the game to fill a gap in the plot rather than conceived as a planned out feature.

Superficially, I appreciate the thematic connections that Phantom Hourglass makes to it's prequel, the Wind Waker. There was also a cutscene that unexpectedly used the Light World dungeon music theme from A Link to the Past, which weirdly fit VERY well.

Another thing I appreciate is the encouragement the game provides behind actually writing on your map. It's an awesome feature and does a lot to make me feel more connected to the world and puzzles within it. Other great mechanics have included the use of both screens; one boss battle used a screen to show the boss's point of view while it was invisible to help you gauge where the boss is.

Not everything has been this creative, though. The last "puzzle" I just solved before saving and quitting was one where you need to talk to every Goron on an island, with no way to check your progress. One of the Gorons doesn't just need you to talk with them, but also to defeat some enemies it was looking at. The game provides no hint for this, it just expects you to know exactly what to do.

As watered down as the plot seems, I still have a few interesting unanswered questions. What exactly is the truth behind Ciela's character? What is the origin and purpose of Bellum? Jolene refered to her search for Linebeck as being 100 years in the making, was this an exaggeration or is there something else going on? The story is definitely pretty weak right now, but there certainly is potential if these questions ever get addresses. Again, I have virtually zero memory of this game as I haven't played through it since 2007.

Tomorrow is my last day before I'm back to work. I have absolutely no idea how far in Phantom Hourglass I am, but I would expect I'm at least half done. I'm hoping to at least be done Phantom Hourglass before the end of August.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/9/982e6889.jpg

Still plugging along in Phantom Hourglass. This game is a fair bit longer than I remembered. I'd say I'm at least 12 hours into it, but it's becoming clear that I'm likely around 75% done. I've completed the fourth (Goron Temple) and fifth (Temple of Ice) dungeons, with one more that I need to find in order to get the last pure metal so I can have the Phantom Sword constructed. I've also returned to the Temple of the Ocean King yet again to get the northeastern sea chart, which is the last one.

The dungeon design has become pretty samey. No dungeon has really had a stand out feel to it yet, which comes as disappointing after Twilight Princess did such a great job providing atmosphere to each of its dungeons. It's understandable that a handheld game like PH isn't going to match that, but with PH it almost feels like it doesn't even try. The music is even the same in every dungeon, and seems like a more boring rehashed version of the cave music from ALttP.

The bosses have been decent though. One of the earlier dungeons had a boss that turned invisible, but your top DS screen showed you their first person view, so you could determine where they actually were. The fourth dungeon's boss required you to control a Goron to help you fight it, which was pretty cool. The fifth dungeon's boss was a great take on an Gleeok, the dragon boss that has rarely made reappearances since the first NES Zelda , and it actually provided a reasonable level of challenge.

Navigating the oceans works fairly well, but enemy encounters are far too common, and especially common are fights with Jolene, who I'm not really convinced you even can escape from once she spots you. The game at least provides a steadily increasing rupee reward for putting up with it, though.

I really liked the Anouki characters, they have such a wild energy about them and they genuinely made me smile. I wish they'd bring them back in future Zelda games, I find them much more interesting and entertaining than the same old Gorons and Zoras that Ocarina of Time cemented into the series. I really enjoyed the investigation they get you to do regarding finding the imposter; it was a decently challenging logic puzzle unlike anything the series had tried before. It was super satisfying to solve it, moreso than any puzzle in the last several games.

Lastly, the Temple of the Ocean King is really not fun at all. I don't know how or why this was ever given the green light. It takes way too long to go through and doesn't provide enough interesting new challenges to make it feel worthwhile. I think this was the 5th time the game forces you to go through the temple, and the games made it clear that there certainly will be at least one more. The game does at least let you skip to the 7th floor now, but that still leaves the more time consuming second half of the floors for you to revist again and again. Not a fan at all.

I feel like Phantom Hourglass will likely get finished this weekend. If there's a nice thing to say about it, it's that it is actually holding my attention quite well. It's not the best Zelda game, but I am at least enjoying playing through it again. It's remarkable that I don't really remember anything about it, but that's been a blessing as it almost feels like I'm playing a new game.

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I've finished Phantom Hourglass! I was pleasantly surprised how much better this game was than I remembered. I've always ranked it either at or near the bottom of the series, but I no longer think that's a fair placement for it.

The game made excellent use of the dual screens as well as the touch screen. Being able to draw on the map directly is a feature that I wish was somehow possible in every Zelda game. The touch controls for moving, attacking, and using items weren't always perfect but they work well enough to be enjoyable. The bosses were generally fantastic, and I especially liked Eox, the boss of the sixth dungeon. They all made very creative use of nearly every feature of the DS. The puzzles were often great, stumping me on numerous occasions.

The game does have significant flaws, though. You obtain the Phantom Sword, which is the only sword upgrade, in the last 45 minutes of the game . None of the dungeons stand out at all, and they all feel thematically the same. The general plot of the game was lacking, as the main villain has virtually no presence at all until the very end, which doesn't make it feel like a very threatening villain. The dialogue also feels very awkward and poorly written. The sole exception, as I've mentioned before, is Linebeck, who probably is the best sidekick (even though he's secondary to the plot to Ciela) in the series yet, particularly as a source of comic relief.

All of the interesting questions I mentioned in my second update for Phantom Hourglass never really get answered. Ciela sort of gets an answer but it isn't very interesting, she's literally the same as the other Spirits but also has an ability to stop time briefly in the final boss battle. Bellum has no backstory or motive. Jolene must have been exaggerating when she said she was searching for Linebeck for 100 years, which I can chalk up to my earlier point that the dialogue is poorly written.

Also, the ship upgrading system was full of features but obtaining new parts were few and far between, which made it feel inaccessible. Not to mention that ship upgrades only did something if you obtained matching ship parts from the same set, which never happened in my playthrough even once, so the feature was purely cosmetic for me. This is unfortunate because the northeast sea was dangerous enough to nearly require you to have a ship upgrade or two, so I had a game over that felt unfair and required me to try again with a new route where I'm not going to be ambushed by enemies I can only hold off for so long. Similarly unfair are the Pols Voice enemies early in the game. One caused me a game over because you have to defeat them by making a lot of sound in your DS microphone, and it just straight up wasn't working .

Aside from its flaws, Phantom Hourglass was an engaging and fun experience for the majority of the game. The final run through the Temple of the Ocean King was made much better by the ability for the Phantom Sword to defeat the Phantoms, rather than having to sneak around . The game certainly could have been polished a bit more, but what they released is still a solid and innovative addition to the series, and a fun continuation of the story of the Link from Wind Waker. Of all the games in the series so far, this is the one I had previously underrated the most. It's still nowhere near the top of the series, but it's well worth your time. My updated ranking:

1. OoT
2. MM
3. ALttP
4. TP
5. WW
6. OoS
7. OoA
8. PH
9. MC
10. LA
11. AoL
12. LoZ
13. FSA

I'll likely begin Spirit Tracks later today. I remember liking Spirit Tracks a LOT more than Phantom Hourglass, so I'm quite excited. I remember the story being a lot more compelling, too.

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You think TP is long wait until you get to Breath of the Wild unless you are damn good at skipping shit and fighting bosses before you have the right stuff it's over 55 hours.

I hear Tears of the Kingdom is even longer but I have not beaten that yet so can't comment.

Monopoman posted...

You think TP is long wait until you get to Breath of the Wild unless you are damn good at skipping shit and fighting bosses before you have the right stuff it's over 55 hours.

I hear Tears of the Kingdom is even longer but I have not beaten that yet so can't comment.

dont forget about Skyward Sword that game is damn long as well. I havent played Totk yet but Ill be playing it probably around the holiday time. I cant wait, I just spent 70 hours on Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity. That game took forever to beat as well, albeit I was doing side quests constantly. Loved every minute of it though, cant wait to play Tears

faramir77 posted...

Similarly unfair are the Pols Voice enemies early in the game. One caused me a game over because you have to defeat them by making a lot of sound in your DS microphone, and it just straight up wasn't working.

You won't be able to finish Spirit Tracks with that DS. You're required to have a working microphone for the Lokomo flute sections. It's what made me quit it.

Monopoman posted...

You think TP is long wait until you get to Breath of the Wild unless you are damn good at skipping shit and fighting bosses before you have the right stuff it's over 55 hours.

I hear Tears of the Kingdom is even longer but I have not beaten that yet so can't comment.

Oh yeah, I'm aware of that, haha. I've played through them all before, this is just my first time playing them in succession in release order. TotK absolutely felt longer than BotW but I'll do my best to trim both of them down. I'm going to require myself to complete all the dungeons and earn the Master Sword in each, even though technically they're all optional and you can head right to the final boss.

FrozenBananas posted...

dont forget about Skyward Sword that game is damn long as well. I havent played Totk yet but Ill be playing it probably around the holiday time. I cant wait, I just spent 70 hours on Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity. That game took forever to beat as well, albeit I was doing side quests constantly. Loved every minute of it though, cant wait to play Tears

Skyward Sword is comparable to Twilight Princess in length. I'll be playing the Switch version which thankfully reduces the intro time greatly, not to mention I've heard it almost completely removes Fi's dialogue throughout the game. Both of those shave off at least an hour or two.

Zareth posted...

You won't be able to finish Spirit Tracks with that DS. You're required to have a working microphone for the Lokomo flute sections. It's what made me quit it.

I was actually thinking about that when it happened. To be fair, I'm playing PH and ST on my 3DS XL. I had no issue with the flute sections when I originally played it back in 2009 on my original DS, which I still have. Worst case scenario I'll play it on the old original DS.

I was in the minority (at least of people that I knew) that liked Spirit Tracks a lot less than Phantom Hourglass.

ReturnOfFa posted...

I was in the minority (at least of people that I knew) that liked Spirit Tracks a lot less than Phantom Hourglass.

Same, but my DS literally couldn't play it

Alright, so I've made some minor progress in Spirit Tracks. I'm not sure if I'm just burned out from Phantom Hourglass, but I'm having a hard time getting into Spirit Tracks. It's VERY similar to Phantom Hourglass, moreso than any other two Zelda games before (other than the Oracle games, which was purposeful). It struggles to hold my attention for more than about an hour at a time. I'd estimate I'm about 5 hours into the game.

First, I like the premise of the plot. Taking place about 100 years after Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass, the story is a continuation of the accomplishments of Link and Tetra from Wind Waker. There's a lot of heartfelt nods to the characters from those games, which definitely helps the game establish its tone.

Link has a unique voice actor in this one. It's a subtle change, but I'm glad they did it, because otherwise it would be easier to assume this was somehow the same Link from WW and PH.

The Anouki from Phantom Hourglass are back, with one of them explaining how they left their old island to come to New Hyrule. I mentioned during my PH playthrough how much I liked them, so naturally seeing them again made me happy. The puzzle they make you do isn't as advanced as the one from PH, but it was nice to see them pull their shenanigans again.

I'm getting massive Skyward Sword vibes from the music and tone of the game. I know this game released a couple years before SS, but there must be someone high up in development common to both of those games. This is not a good thing, it's actually very off putting as I really have no care for Skyward Sword at all.

The flute segments that require you to use the microphone haven't been a big problem yet, but the accuracy of my 3DS microphone is definitely bad. Luckily the game has a VERY forgiving tolerance for errors, so I could absolutely screw up a song and yet the game still registers it as being played perfectly.

I'm currently in the Snow Realm on my way to the second dungeon. The Tower of Spirits clearly was intended to fill the same role as the Temple of the Ocean King (a hub you return to after each dungeon), but it isn't nearly as bad so far given that it doesn't require you to backtrack as much. So far, the game isn't as good as I remembered, and more or less on par with Phantom Hourglass.

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I have again made some VERY slow progress with Spirit Tracks. This game is really tough to get into. It feels like a series of pointless fetch quests rather than an interesting adventure.

I've completed the second dungeon, earned the Ocean Realm Map, and have just encountered the broken bridge connecting the Forest Realm to the Ocean Realm, which will require me to go ALL the way back to the Snow Realm to get the bridge worker and bring him all the way back. Ugh. At least in the process I've met Linebeck III, which feels like Nintendo's way of acknowledging how awesome of a character Linebeck was . I've also done some moderate sidequesting, mainly focusing on collecting the stamp stations and Heart Containers.

The dungeon design has been better than Phantom Hourglass so far. They at least try to give the dungeons a central theme, and some of the ideas worked great. I liked in the second dungeon the requirement to use the ice flame torches to freeze the deep water allowing you to cross. The bosses have been better than Phantom Hourglass bosses so far, too.

Spirit Tracks is suffering from an issue many other Zelda games have, and that's a disconnect between the established story and what you actually engage with in the game. There has been no additional presence from either Cole or Byrne. They did a great job of setting these characters up as villains, I wish they'd at least try to expand on it.

Overall so far, the game has deep lows that just make it an absolute drag to play. I'm very surprised because my memory has always placed this well above Phantom Hourglass. I think I'm about a third of the way through the game, with likely 8 or so hours already put into it.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/8/835d9772.jpg

I remember starting Spirit Tracks, kind of bouncing off of it and drifting away before I got very deep into it, but then when I came back and pushed past that I had a pretty good time. I don't remember how long I was away or if I fully restarted when I returned, but if you're finding the early game to be a drag maybe my recollection is because it has a stronger back end. That, or we just have different opinions, in which case there's no choice but to fight to the death.