I'm going to replay all the Zelda games in release order this year

faramir77 posted...

The amount of content between dungeon 2 and 3 was a little bit too much, if that's even a valid criticism. I found myself thinking "alright, just get to the next dungeon already" which is definitely a natural sign that the game was dragging.

If memory serves, I think that's where I dropped Ages for a while. There was a lot of running around in a quasi-trade sequence, and I got slightly stuck and wasn't engaged enough to push through it, so I drifted away from the game. I went back a few years later, used a guide to remind myself where I was and what came next, then loved the rest of it.

I honestly never clicked with either of the Oracle games. I tried playing Seasons again recently, but just go bored of it about 1/3 of the way through and picked up and beat Minish Cap instead.

Are you going to EoW to your list since it comes out this year?

Ogurisama posted...

Are you going to EoW to your list since it comes out this year?

Yes, I forgot to mention that. I'm going to delay playing EoW until this entire list has been completed. That'll maybe motivate me to progress through this a bit faster haha.

I've made it to the 5th dungeon. The 4th dungeon was probably the most linear dungeon I've seen in the entire series, but it had its fair share of great puzzles. I really liked the ones where you have to make all the floor tiles change to one colour, and if you step onto a floor tile you've already changed, you have to start over.

Before the 4th dungeon, I had to briefly rescue Zelda, who apparently is visiting Labrynna. I got a good chuckle out of it, because the rescue stage is clearly based off of the original arcade Donkey Kong. Somehow it doesn't even feel out of place, but I had totally forgotten about that. After saving Zelda, she acts as if you've never met before. This is strange because I thought this Link/Zelda were the same ones from ALttP and LA, with the Oracle games happening in between the events of those other two. I guess this could be a new princess Zelda, but that doesn't make much sense either.

I've upgraded my seed satchel and my bomb bag. More importantly, I've fully upgraded my sword to the Master Sword. It'll be nice to finally rip through enemies, especially Gibdo which take a ton of hits.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/9/9fe97c05.jpg

How is A Link Between Worlds? Are they ever going to bring it to the Switch?

Revelation34 posted...

How is A Link Between Worlds? Are they ever going to bring it to the Switch?

Really good, probably not. They aren't opposed to remaking 3DS games for the Switch, as evidenced by Luigi's Mansion 2 (and probably some other examples that I just can't think of off-hand), but between a new Zelda coming out later this year and a new system most likely coming next year, announcing a remake now seems pretty unlikely. Remaking/rereleasing it for the new system, however, is quite plausible, especially if they decide to add 3DS games to whatever version of NSO's game library the new one has (though that might be a bit far-fetched).

adjl posted...

Really good, probably not. They aren't opposed to remaking 3DS games for the Switch, as evidenced by Luigi's Mansion 2 (and probably some other examples that I just can't think of off-hand), but between a new Zelda coming out later this year and a new system most likely coming next year, announcing a remake now seems pretty unlikely. Remaking/rereleasing it for the new system, however, is quite plausible, especially if they decide to add 3DS games to whatever version of NSO's game library the new one has (though that might be a bit far-fetched).

I probably won't be able to afford the new Switch when it comes out.

I've finished the 6th dungeon in Link's Awakening. The music in the 5th dungeon was probably the most insanely terrible music I've heard in a game aside from the title screen music from Crazy Bus. It's astonishing just how varied the new music is between these two games. Some tracks absolutely slap like Tarm Ruins (which is easily the best part of either game) and the Past Overworld, but good God other tracks are abysmal. This is a strange thing for me to complain about, but it's impossible to not notice.

Dungeon design has still been excellent, though. It's really starting to set in that between these two games they had to develop 16 different dungeons, so it's incredibly impressive that they all measure up so well. The 6th dungeon had a unique past/present dynamic, which while cool, it also felt a bit frustrating having to leave the dungeon to go back to the past/present a few times.

I'll also brag, the Goron Dance gave me no trouble at all. Only once did I "fail" a dance move, aside from that my timing was always perfect. As long as you have good rhythm, it's a breeze.

Lastly, PotD from the first game has grown up to become a rock star. He just mooched 50 rupees from me so I'll be interested to see what he becomes.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/6/6d0c083f.jpg

I've just finished the 7th dungeon. Holy hell that was without any doubt the most confusing dungeon in the entire series so far. The water level changing was clever from a puzzle solving point of view, but...it really wasn't very fun. Especially since the water level switches are all pretty out of your way and require a ton of backtracking.

I remember when I first played Ages as a kid, the idea that you could swim between floors wasn't made very clear, which is mostly a limitation of the hardware. That only caused me an issue at one point right at the end of the dungeon, where it took me a while to figure out how to even get to the boss room. There also was a key you needed to find late in the dungeon that wasn't marked on the map (although it was in the only darkened room left, so fair enough), but it took me a long time to figure out how to get it.

Prior to this dungeon, you are provided the ability to switch between past and present from any location (rendering the previous two harp songs you learned totally obsolete). I've always been impressed with the puzzles they made with that system, it's like it combines the Dark World concepts from ALttP and the time travel from OoT in the absolute best ways. The islands drifting to the west over time (thus giving you a chance to clear over them by time travelling) was super clever.

I'll likely have this game finished by tomorrow. One lingering question I have: what are these res things supposed to be when you speak telepathically with the Maku Tree? They always looked like little winged Yoshis to me, but that makes no sense. Are they supposed to be leaves? I'm not seeing it.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/f/f7f8b41c.jpg

faramir77 posted...

I've just finished the 7th dungeon. Holy hell that was without any doubt the most confusing dungeon in the entire series so far. The water level changing was clever from a puzzle solving point of view, but...it really wasn't very fun. Especially since the water level switches are all pretty out of your way and require a ton of backtracking.

I remember when I first played Ages as a kid, the idea that you could swim between floors wasn't made very clear, which is mostly a limitation of the hardware. That only caused me an issue at one point right at the end of the dungeon, where it took me a while to figure out how to even get to the boss room. There also was a key you needed to find late in the dungeon that wasn't marked on the map (although it was in the only darkened room left, so fair enough), but it took me a long time to figure out how to get it.

Prior to this dungeon, you are provided the ability to switch between past and present from any location (rendering the previous two harp songs you learned totally obsolete). I've always been impressed with the puzzles they made with that system, it's like it combines the Dark World concepts from ALttP and the time travel from OoT in the absolute best ways. The islands drifting to the west over time (thus giving you a chance to clear over them by time travelling) was super clever.

I'll likely have this game finished by tomorrow. One lingering question I have: what are these res things supposed to be when you speak telepathically with the Maku Tree? They always looked like little winged Yoshis to me, but that makes no sense. Are they supposed to be leaves? I'm not seeing it.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/f/f7f8b41c.jpg

I think they're leaves but they look kinda floral too

And now I've finished Oracle of Ages, including the secret linked game ending.

The 8th dungeon was surprisingly easy. There were some elements of it that reminded me of the original NES Zelda, especially the cryptic wall that needed to be bombed, and the mystery staircases that appear when blocks are pushed. The boss of that dungeon was pretty boring, and I remember struggling as a kid trying to figure out how to damage some of its phases, as it really isn't made clear. The bomb phase in particular seems like it was designed as if this were a 3D Zelda, and doesn't translate well to 2D.

Veran was similarly cryptic to fight. There really isn't any reason for bombs to be the only way to stun her in her spider form. It wasn't really that fun, just tedious trying to figure out what works while surviving. At least when you face her earlier in the game, the Mystery seed weakness was strongly hinted at in the plot.

Twinrova was actually a rare case of the final boss being legitimately difficult in a Zelda game. They absolutely drain your health away if you aren't super focused on getting every shot in that you can. The quick window to damage her with Mystery seeds is also really poorly communicated, which is a glaring fault in an otherwise awesome fight. It's also a shame that Twinrova is the main part of the battle and Ganon is relatively easy and quick in comparison.

I checked in with Bipin and Blossom's kid (the one I named PotD) one last time, and he's committed to the rock star personality. He paid back the 50 rupee gift I gave him by giving me 200 rupees, which was cool but there really wasn't anything in this game that I cared to spend rupees on.

It's another bittersweet ending to a Zelda game, though. Unless we get confirmation that Echoes of Wisdom is a Link's Awakening sequel, this is the last time I'll see the Link from A Link to the Past. It's also for sure the last 8-bit Zelda game, which is wild given that I've completed 8 Zelda games at this point in my journey, and 5 of them have been 8-bit.

I'll be taking a break from this for a few weeks before I start Wind Waker. I'm hoping to have all three GameCube Zelda games as well as Minish Cap and both DS Zelda games completed before September. It's a lofty goal, but I have the summer off, so it probably will be achievable. That'll just leave Skyward Sword, A Link Between Worlds, and then the big ones: Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom, which I'm confident I can complete at a rate of one per month to finish this before New Year's.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/8/825882c5.jpg

are you gunna lost media the Satelleview BS games?

Lokarin posted...

are you gunna lost media the Satelleview BS games?

Nope, just the mainline Zelda games, not including Four Swords and Triforce Heroes (which I wouldn't personally consider either of those to actually be mainline at all).

faramir77 posted...

Nope, just the mainline Zelda games, not including Four Swords and Triforce Heroes (which I wouldn't personally consider either of those to actually be mainline at all).

I do recommend Four Sword Adventure (GC) if you can, tho - it's really fun

Yeah, FSA's a good time. Definitely not mainline, by any stretch of the imagination, but good fun.

Yup, I'll be playing FSA for sure. However it along with PH and ST are the three Zeldas I'm least familiar with (only played through them once each).

Just an arbitrary bump for now. I'll start Wind Waker in about a week or so. My summer break has started and I'd rather spend time visiting with family and going fishing than play video games, not to mention that this playthrough was starting to feel like a chore lmao.

I'm excited to start Wind Waker, though. It's been a few years since I've played through it, I last played it around 2019 or so. I'm going to be stuck with the Gamecube version since my Wii U has a graphics card problem, and I can't say for sure when I last played the Gamecube version (probably 2011?).

It's unfortunate because Gamecube (and Wii) games look like total ass on my TV. Hopefully I'll be able to get used to it and adjust, but I remember trying to play Twilight Princess on the Gamecube maybe a year or so ago and I had to stop early on, it just looked way too shitty.

Luckily, I have Skyward Sword on Switch. I never got far in the Switch version because my controllers had stick drift, but I've recently fixed that with hall effect joysticks. That's easily my least favourite 3D Zelda but I'll be interested to see whether the Switch version was a big improvement over the Wii version. At very least the graphics won't be as bad to look at.

That is unfortunate, given that WWHD is a much better game than the original. TP's remake, I can't speak to, but WW's remake made it so the exploration around which so much of the game is focused is actually really fun, instead of being a tedious chore that drags the whole game down.

adjl posted...

That is unfortunate, given that WWHD is a much better game than the original. TP's remake, I can't speak to, but WW's remake made it so the exploration around which so much of the game is focused is actually really fun, instead of being a tedious chore that drags the whole game down.

I agree so much, that's why I'm honestly pretty upset about it. The Quick Sail or whatever it was called in WWHD was a HUGE improvement, and the Triforce quest was made much better. Not to mention that the graphics looked absolutely phenomenal.

TPHD wasn't as big of an improvement, and they screwed up the graphics a bit (it looks washed out and brighter, which defeats the entire purpose of that game's art direction). The ability to switch between human and wolf form with a single button press, plus the shortened Tears of Light segments were good additions, though.

I've looked for used Wii Us but I can't justify spending $100+ just to play two games I already own.

I started Wind Waker last night. The opening intro cutscene detailing the events of Ocarina of Time is still one of my favourite openings to a video game ever.

It's immediately clear just how massive of a change this game is to the previous Zelda games. The entire tone of the game feels different, and obviously the cel shaded art direction plays a huge part in that.

One thing I've felt is that the controls don't feel as good as the N64 Zeldas. I know the Wii U version made a lot of quality of life adjustments to controls, and I'm really feeling it with this GameCube version. Swinging on ropes doesn't work as well as it should, and it isn't very clear where Link will land when you let go of the rope. The new control options like sidling and crawling are neat, but really don't serve much purpose beyond niche moments. I can see why they removed these from all future games.

Another criticism I have is the apparent non sequitur nature of the game's plot progression. The base premise of Aryll being kidnapped by the Helmaroc King because it confused her for Tetra is a very solid foundation, as is Link insisting on going to the Forsaken Fortress to rescue her, but this quickly progresses to "Ganon has her and you must defeat him". I think they could have done without introducing Ganon that early in the game, maybe by saying that the Forsaken Fortress is controlled by some secretive pirate or something, and that Link will need to listen to the King of Red Lions for guidance on how to successfully take down the Helmaroc King.

In addition, the way the Wind Waker (as an item) is introduced is an immense buzzkill. Even more strange is how you can learn the first Wind Waker song (and by far the most important one) just moments after you get the Wind Waker if and only if you know exactly where to go. The song being taught by some random cloud riding frog demigod that never gets mentioned or shown again seems WAY too out of place, to the point of absurdity. It's like they wanted to step forward with how involved the story is in the game, but they never really filtered ideas down to a coherent or consistent narrative, and rather just included everything that came to mind.

That's where I've left off, just arriving at Dragon Roost Island. I've always enjoyed this game, but playing it right after all the previous Zeldas makes me understand better why the game was so divisive when it released, and I think it goes a lot further than "the graphics are too childish". For what it's worth, even as the Gamecube version, the graphics still look great to this day (albeit blurry as a 480p signal on my 1080p TV).

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/0/09cb9cc3.jpg

faramir77 posted...

Luckily, I have Skyward Sword on Switch. I never got far in the Switch version because my controllers had stick drift, but I've recently fixed that with hall effect joysticks. That's easily my least favourite 3D Zelda but I'll be interested to see whether the Switch version was a big improvement over the Wii version. At very least the graphics won't be as bad to look at.

I played SS HD on the switch and enjoyed it a lot. I didnt have many problems, and it was definitely a beautiful game. The only annoying problem was having to re-face The Imprisoned boss like 5 or 6 times throughout the game. I fucking hate that stupid fucking boss. Im guessing he was just as bad in the original, though, so thats nothing new with the remake

FrozenBananas posted...

I played SS HD on the switch and enjoyed it a lot. I didnt have many problems, and it was definitely a beautiful game. The only annoying problem was having to re-face The Imprisoned boss like 5 or 6 times throughout the game. I fucking hate that stupid fucking boss. Im guessing he was just as bad in the original, though, so thats nothing new with the remake

Yeah, that was one of many things wrong with that game. The Wii version was also WAY over the top when it came to over explaining pretty much everything you had to do. I've heard they made a lot of quality of life fixes in the Switch version, so when I finally get to Skyward Sword, I'll be interested in seeing what's new.

As for Wind Waker, I've finished the first three dungeons and just received the Master Sword. The dungeon design seems much more linear in Wind Waker compared to the other 3D Zeldas. They're solidly designed, don't get me wrong, but there really isn't any considerable backtracking involved, which makes having a dungeon map kind of pointless.

In terms of sailing, it's definitely a chore to play a song every time you want to change the wind's direction. The Wii U version did a great job fixing this, but I'm working around that by planning in advance the path I can take while sailing so I don't have to change the wind direction very much. Exploration is kind of discouraged so far into the game (the King of Red Lions straight up won't let you go off the quadrants in which you're expected to cross through), but I know that opens up pretty much right where I'm at now.

The story has become a lot more coherent. Introducing Ganon early, while I still think wasn't the best decision for the game's story, has provided the game a serious backdrop to help explain all the terrible things that are happening to the Great Sea. The dialogue in Hylian between Jabun and the King of Red Lions was an awesome choice for adding a sense of urgency and secrecy to Link's mission, as well as the motives and true identity of the King of Red Lions.

I'm more or less avoiding most sidequests in this playthrough so I can make up for lost time. I've upgraded my rupee wallet (basically needed to, since I didn't have a fairy in a bottle when I returned to Outset, and there's no way I'm not reviving poor old grandma) as well as the bomb bag because it was literally on the path to placing the Pearls into the statues before the third dungeon. Other major upgrades I'll definitely aim to get are the second rupee wallet upgrade, the magic meter upgrade, well as at least one quiver upgrade. As for Heart Pieces, I'm not going to go far out of my way.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/e/e92f5912.jpg

I just heard an insider rumor that nintendo might be trying to launch the Satelleview/BS (whatever they're called) games again with the Switch 2 as its "new store" incentive

I just finished the Wind Temple. The boss of that temple, Molgera, is easily the best in the series so far. Everything from the music to the frantic atmosphere of the battle makes it an absolutely phenomenal boss, well above the quality of any previous boss I've seen yet.

Returning to the Forsaken Fortress to rescue Aryll was hugely satisfying. The battle against the Helmaroc King was great mostly due to the emotional charge behind it. I think this is the first boss in the series that Link is exacting revenge upon.

I have to back up on a comment I made earlier about how much of a buzzkill receiving the Wind Waker is. One of the sages later explains in a brief line why the King of Red Lions had it. It's still not the best introduction for the item, but they do address some of the issue I had with it.

I wasn't a big fan of either the Earth or Wind Temples. The central concept of commanding Medli or Makar around got old very fast. The Wind Temple gives a bit of relief from this when you get separated from Makar, but it's not enough to make a big difference.

This next part of the game, the Triforce chart quest, is brutal. I've been dreading this since well before I even started this game. This is one of the areas the Wii U version made huge improvements in cutting down the length of the section by about half. I'll try to keep track of how long this section takes me (I already have one Triforce chart that I found much earlier in the game), but I'm hoping my memory of how much of a drag this part is isn't actually accurate.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/e/e316f788.jpg

And now I've finished Wind Waker! I find it kind of funny how I finished this with only 10 hearts due to not actively looking for Heart Pieces, and yet in Ocarina of Time I had 11 hearts before I even got the Master Sword.

The Triforce chart quest was miserable. It took about 2 hours to complete it, and that was with me knowing exactly where to go (including how to find the Ghost Ship chart, which I can't remember how you're supposed to find that since it's on a very random island). It feels like it was a way for them to artificially pad the game without really adding much new content. The price Tingle charges to decipher your charts is also out of control, but luckily I didn't really need to farm for rupees to pay for it all (but only barely).

I can see that they were probably trying to encourage exploration, and especially get the player interacting with many of the NPCs. There are a lot of sidequests in this game that I unfortunately didn't get to for the sake of time. Avoiding those sidequests definitely took a great amount of the charm out of the game, but I already know what those experiences are so I won't hold it against the game or anything.

The final dungeon was decent, but some parts were just a drag. The Earth Temple section was pretty annoying, and it contrasted heavily with the Wind Temple section which took like 20 seconds.
Puppet Ganon is one of the strangest enemies in the series but I really enjoy the fight. The final boss, of course, is a major highlight, especially with the cataclysmic events happening all around at the same time.

Wind Waker has perhaps both my favourite beginning and favourite ending to a Zelda game. The majority of the game is stellar, but the shaky plot development early on as well as the absolutely terrible Triforce chart quest both bring it down significantly.

I'm at the halfway point in my journey through the series (in terms of completed games), with this being game 9 of 18 (or 19 by the time Echoes of Wisdom launches). Here's my current ranking of the games so far; I'll try to update this each time I complete a game.

1. OoT
2. MM
3. ALttP
4. WW
5. OoS
6. OoA
7. LA
8. AoL
9. LoZ

I might start Four Swords Adventures in an hour or so this evening, but otherwise I'll get a start on it tomorrow.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/6/6ffc27b3.jpg

I started Four Swords Adventures earlier this evening. It's.... different. This is probably the Zelda game I'm least familiar with. I'm on the last part of Level 2, and I just completed the "Village of the Blue Maiden" stage.

It hardly feels like a Zelda game at all. It feels like a Flash game from 2005. The controls are terrible when playing single player, the story is barely comprehensible, and the graphical style isn't as charming as I think they thought it would be.

The game is heavily leaning on ALttP nostalgia with a Wind Waker stylistic theme, which is a really odd combination. It feels like a Zelda game made by people that didn't really know anything about Zelda games.

I'm questioning my willingness to play this. So far, this is easily the worst Zelda game. I've never considered Triforce Heroes to be canon, I'm now really wondering whether FSA is canon either. Nothing with its story seems to really matter, and the design elements are so far removed from what other games have established that's it's jarring. I don't mind change in a series, and nearly every game so far has changed a LOT, but this one feels like a swing and a miss.

There really isn't anything compelling here. The quality of puzzles you'd expect from a Zelda game is replaced by trivial scavenger hunt tasks that require you to waste your time aimlessly looking for the next thing that will progress the level. Not to mention that collecting "Force Gems" (wtf) as a forced mechanic really isn't strong game design.

To give it some praise, the puzzles that blend the GBA screen view with the TV screen view are sometimes very creative. Also, the game clearly runs at 60fps, which really helps make this game look even remotely presentable.

I'm hoping this game improves as I continue to play through it. It's been so long since I've played it that I can safely say I know pretty much nothing about it. My first hour or two have me really lowering expectations for this game, though.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/f/f7166e54.jpg

I've made it to Level 6, the Desert of Doubt.

This game has mostly been a bust, but it has had its ups as well. There have been some creative puzzles that I've enjoyed. In the final stage of Level 5, you had to move what some Deku Scrubs called "the foundation of a statue of Ganon" to serve as a makeshift pathway over a gap and through some obstacles, which was actually pretty neat. The game makes an obvious attempt to use the Game Boy Advance screen (that pops up on my TV because there's no way I'll fuss with playing this with a connected GBA) in ways that get you to think outside the box. Unfortunately, these mechanisms are few and far between.

Another (very superficial) thing I've enjoyed has been the music. The Tower of Flames (which I think was a stage during Level 3) had a remade version of the Death Mountain theme from the original Legend of Zelda on the NES. The Desert of Doubt that I'm currently on is using the Dark World music from A Link to the Past. Four Swords Adventures is really trying to appeal to nostalgia, arguably more so than it tries to make an original or interesting game.

The requirement to collect 2000 Force Gems in order to complete a stage is annoying, but well within reasonable achievable limits as long as you put even a semi-conscious effort into collecting them. Still, I'm not sure what the purpose of this is aside from padding out the game and turning it into a simplistic collectathon.

I'm still not a fan of the story, but it slowly is building more and more of a narrative. The set up of the story was extremely weak, and any new plot that arises feels less of a "we had this planned in the first place" and more of a "we're just trying to make interesting things happen with no regard for making this make sense". The ghostly Knights of Hyrule providing Royal Jewels just feels like it was shoehorned in, and doesn't really mesh with the plot the game was trying to establish. I do, however, like that they've kept it a mystery as to why both Vaati and Ganon are active antagonists in this.

All in all, I'm just looking to finish this game. I'm finding it very annoying that stages vary widely in their length. Some only take about 15 minutes to complete, others take an hour. Four Swords Adventures is treating "searching everywhere for the way forward" as if it's an engaging or interesting puzzle. It got old very fast. It's a shame, because I bet this game would be much more fun with multiplayer. I'm not sure what Nintendo was thinking when they made this, though. Multiplayer requires each player to have their own GBA and connection cable. When this game came out 20 years ago, that was my biggest barrier to playing multiplayer. Now the biggest barrier is finding at least one friend willing to play this with me, lmao.

I'm hoping to finish this before the end of the week, but we'll see.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/e/e557b6a0.jpg

faramir77 posted...

I'm finding it very annoying that stages vary widely in their length.

Oh god do I remember this. The game was fun as a 4-player game but goddamn, I remember farting around in that town in the 2nd level (I think) for way too long.

faramir77 posted...

Multiplayer requires each player to have their own GBA and connection cable. When this game came out 20 years ago, that was my biggest barrier to playing multiplayer. Now the biggest barrier is finding at least one friend willing to play this with me, lmao.

I always found that was a problem with any of the GBA-based multiplayer games. GBA connectivity was a neat idea that was always held back by the requirement to have friends with GBAs to take advantage of it. I had enough cables to connect everyone, and between replacing my base GBA with an SP and borrowing my sister's I was able to supply enough for my core group of three to play them, but that wasn't exactly ideal because the SP was clearly better than the other two. I think that concept suffered the same problem as Streetpass in that portable gaming is (or was) just bigger in Japan and it was therefore easier to find somebody else with the necessary systems.

It's an idea they could actually revisit a lot more effectively now. Almost everyone has a smartphone and consoles are already bluetooth-enabled, so if the individual content was just streamed to a phone app instead of needing to connect a dedicated handheld system, you could get that kind of asymmetric personal view with just about anyone. Controlling it might not be ideal (though recreating GBA controls on a phone isn't terribly hard), but it'd at least be more accessible and require fewer extra peripherals than the GBA connectivity idea.

adjl posted...

I always found that was a problem with any of the GBA-based multiplayer games. GBA connectivity was a neat idea that was always held back by the requirement to have friends with GBAs to take advantage of it. I had enough cables to connect everyone, and between replacing my base GBA with an SP and borrowing my sister's I was able to supply enough for my core group of three to play them, but that wasn't exactly ideal because the SP was clearly better than the other two. I think that concept suffered the same problem as Streetpass in that portable gaming is (or was) just bigger in Japan and it was therefore easier to find somebody else with the necessary systems.

It's an idea they could actually revisit a lot more effectively now. Almost everyone has a smartphone and consoles are already bluetooth-enabled, so if the individual content was just streamed to a phone app instead of needing to connect a dedicated handheld system, you could get that kind of asymmetric personal view with just about anyone. Controlling it might not be ideal (though recreating GBA controls on a phone isn't terribly hard), but it'd at least be more accessible and require fewer extra peripherals than the GBA connectivity idea.

People are doing pretty cool workarounds with emulators these days for Crystal Chronicles. The setup was so ridiculous. My friends and I did it a fair bit but it still required planning, and was later in highschool years, not when the games had initially come out.

More than the multiplayer, it bugs me that every stage in Crystal Chronicles has a secret objective that you really want to do to build your character up, but that you can only see by connecting and playing with a GBA, even if you're playing solo. That's just trying to push the GBA connectivity for no real benefit.

I've just finished Four Swords Adventures.

This game absolutely lacked the luster that any of the previous games had. That being said, it felt like it improved in levels 6, 7, and 8. Otherwise I just came to accept the format of the game.

The absolute biggest issue with the game is that it generally lacks proper puzzle solving like nearly every other Zelda game. The final stage of Level 8 was a great exception to that, where it utilized nearly all the items you can collect throughout the game in by far the most creative ways shown so far. There was one puzzle I had to look up how to solve (involving picking up a Link in the light world while one is in the dark world, which was absolutely not intuitive at all), but otherwise they were pretty clever.

The format of the game being stage based makes sense only in a multiplayer context, which I will admit is the target context of this game. Regardless, my previous complaint about how varied the stage length is still carries as valid. The shortest stage took likely about 15 minutes whereas there were a handful that took well over an hour. The final stage was a long one, which was fully appropriate given that it needed to be a big finale.

The story was terrible up until the last few levels. Ganondorf being mentioned but not directly seen added a lot of mystery to the story and his character. Ultimately though there never felt like proper closure to the story. It's jarringly mindless. I don't think I can continue thinking that this game is in any way canon to the overall Zelda timeline, regardless of what Nintendo or other fans might say. This can join the likes of Four Swords and Triforce Heroes as far as I'm concerned.

The best thing about the game was the music. I loved the remade NES and ALttP music. I mentioned before that one track that really stood out was the Death Mountain music from the original NES Zelda. I'm pretty sure this music didn't appear in another Zelda game again until Breath of the Wild in 2017, which is impressive that they included it. I also liked before versions of the ALttP Dark World theme; one was played in Level 6, and a different more wintery one was played in Level 7.

I could see this game being a LOT more fun when played with 3 others in multiplayer. There are a lot of opportunities to communicate and give each other directions or support, which would be a blast. For single player though, the controls to work with all 4 Links at the same time were a bit tricky to get used to, but by around halfway through the game I had mastered using the C stick to quickly sort the Links into their different lineups to coordinate attacks. It vaguely kind of felt like playing Pikmin.

I'll start Minish Cap this evening. I'll have to bust out my actual GameCube (I played WW and FSA on my Wii) to connect Minish Cap to my Game Boy Player on the GameCube. I might also play it a bit on my good old GBA SP. The only Zeldas I'll be forced to play on a handheld will be the DS ones and ALBW on the 3DS.

Here's my updated ranking for the series. It shouldn't come as a surprise where I've placed FSA, but I will again admit that I'm only ranking it based on the single player experience.

1. OoT
2. MM
3. ALttP
4. WW
5. OoS
6. OoA
7. LA
8. AoL
9. LoZ
10. FSA

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/0/0d156eb9.jpg

I've started Minish Cap, and made it to the third dungeon.

Already this is a massive improvement over Four Swords Adventures. The story is pretty straightforward but it comes back to the central villian (Vaati) pretty often, which keeps his character both relevant and intimidating.

The music and sound effects in this game are really great for a GBA game. I've also noticed just how frequently they've reused sound effects from the Game Boy Zelda games, especially on the second boss, or when you damage a large enemy. I really like this, as lazy as it may be.

The influence of the Game Boy Zeldas doesn't end there. There are some dungeon design quirks that immediately remind me of the Oracle games. One of the simplest examples of this are the spinning blades that chase you down corridors. It makes sense that these have returned, given that Capcom developed Minish Cap as well as the Oracle games.

The creativity behind the shrinking mechanic is absolutely wonderful. Seeing things like twigs and leaves seem larger than Link is great, as well as the danger posed at one point from getting caught in a rain storm while tiny.

I'm not going out of my way to get upgrades or heart pieces in this, but the game seems to pretty much throw heart pieces your way. This is clearly a consequence of being such a short game and yet they insisted on having 20 full hearts be the possible maximum. I happen to remember that one heart piece in this game requires you to collect all the figurines, which in itself takes dozens of hours from what I can remember. This has made this heart piece notorious for being the most difficult in the entire series to obtain by a mile; in fact, I've NEVER bothered to earn that heart piece, making it one of very few in the series I've never earned.

Somehow I've already accidentally managed to upgrade my rupee wallet twice. Probably a good thing given that there have been some costly things you're required to spend rupees on, and the default wallet only carries 100 rupees.

We'll see how fast I can clear this game. I remember when it launched in 2005, I finished it in a disappointingly short amount of time. I'm sort of excited for Twilight Princess next, and I might aim to do a more full completion of that game like I did with the N64 Zeldas. We'll see, though.

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it's a shame you didn't like FSA, I rather liked it... but ya, it is different

Lokarin posted...

it's a shame you didn't like FSA, I rather liked it... but ya, it is different

Yeah, it was too "arcade" like for me, with how it was stage based rather than the traditional more open world. I get why they did that since it would make it much more accessible for multiplayer, but it didn't translate well to single player in my view. It wasn't a horrible game, but it really didn't catch my interest.

I'm still plugging away at Minish Cap. I'm on my way to the fifth dungeon. The amount of tasks the game throws at you between the third and fourth dungeons was excessive, to the point where even the game points out how bad it is. You need to collect missing library books, and then while trying to retrieve one of the books, you realize you need a whole new upgrade and have to navigate your way to a hidden cave to get an item that lets you return to continue with your library book fetch quest, which at that point still isn't even half over. It's exhausting.

The dungeon quality has been pretty good, though. The puzzles haven't been extraordinary, but the creativity they've shown in the dungeon design is amazing. The fourth dungeon, the Temple of Droplets, was especially great. I loved the concept of the boss ( which was just a regular Octorok that seems gigantic because you fight it while small ), however it had some very cheap mechanics in the fight that often felt like you getting hit with damage wasn't really your own fault.

The Kinstone system is hit or miss. Sometimes a Kinstone fusion just leads to a replacement Kinstone piece, which is a colossal waste of time. Other times it leads to a super important upgrade, that makes you very thankful you both took the time to do that Kinstone fusion as well as fortunate that you actually had the proper Kinstone piece to make that fusion happen.

The graphics and music have been great for a GBA game. Great Fairies especially look spectacular, so much so that they almost seem out of place when you meet them (which given their status is honestly a very good thing). The Royal Crypt reusing the original NES Zelda dungeon theme as well as the jingle when a key appears was such a neat addition.

I have both the bomb bag and the quiver upgrades from the store, as well as the Magical Boomerang. I know I'm about 75% done the game, so I should be finished by the weekend.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/b/bee695d2.jpg

If you're going for 100% watch out because there's a kinstone fusion you can mess up

Zareth posted...

If you're going for 100% watch out because there's a kinstone fusion you can mess up

Nah, definitely not doing 100%. I mentioned before that there's a single Heart Piece that is notorious for taking dozens of hours to obtain alone. Minish Cap is fun, but not worth that kind of grind.

That said, I've now finished Minish Cap! I feel like this game is often forgotten, and doesn't get much attention. It was a great game, and the story was particularly good for a GBA game. This was the third and final game (second one in my playthrough as far as canon is concerned to me) with Vaati as the antagonist, and they absolutely redeemed his character as an interesting and threatening antagonist with a great backstory.

Item variety in Minish Cap was a little lacking, and mostly relied on old series staples, but the new Gust Jar and Cane of Pacci were creative and allowed for puzzles unlike anything we'd seen before in the series. I liked the concept of Kinstone fusions, but they seemed a little too random sometimes and generally felt like a waste of time, with an occasional grand slam mixed in.

The dungeons were unfortunately pretty linear, but typically the puzzles each consecutive room provided kept things interesting enough for me not to care. It's a difficult balance developing a dungeon that isn't too linear or too nonlinear, but I felt they did alright with this.

The only other complaint I have is with the overworld design. It always felt cumbersome just navigating around the overworld, even after you gain the ability to fast travel. I haven't felt this way about most other games in the series.

The next Zelda game is a massive one: Twilight Princess. There wasn't a single game that I ever was more hyped for than that. The two year wait between the legendary E3 2004 reveal and its actual launch day felt like an eternity of hype. I'll be playing the Gamecube version, and hopefully will get a chance to start in the next few days.

My updated tier list:

1. OoT
2. MM
3. ALttP
4. WW
5. OoS
6. OoA
7. MC
8. LA
9. AoL
10. LoZ
11. FSA

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/7/7d13d309.jpg

I just started Zelda 1 myself, decided to get all heart pieces, white sword and blue ring before doing the first dungeon. Made it really easy haha

I've started Twilight Princess.

Graphically, this game was a huge step ahead. It definitely was one of the most impressive looking Gamecube games, with the lighting giving a great contrast and shadowy look to most objects, which really adds to the game's atmosphere. It's super blurry on my TV though, as any 480p signal would be. I'm glad this is the last non-handheld game with that resolution.

The game tries a little too hard to establish a plot. Sometimes less is more, and Twilight Princess fails to see this. I've been playing for just over an hour and I'm only at the part where you need to search for a sword and shield. The first dungeon is still over an hour away, and I can't get think of another Zelda in this playthrough so far that even comes close to taking this long to get to the first dungeon (Majora's Mask, I guess?). The first multiple tasks you're required to do are more tedious than they are interesting, and I'm not sure that two rounds of goat herding was useful in training the player for horse controls.

They miss the mark on trying to establish an emotional connection with the characters; if anything, I just see virtually all of Link's friends in Ordon Village as being irrational and narcissistic. Wind Waker did a much better job with much less time motivating you to save Aryll, both for her sake and for your grandma.

The abilities Link has right from the start are great, though. Sword combat (with that wooden sword you get for like 5 minutes) is a huge upgrade from previous games. There's even the roll attack followed up by a lunging stab, which was an unlockable hidden skill in Minish Cap. Combat feels much more solid, but it's a shame enemies aren't a bigger threat. I've always considered Twilight Princess the easiest Zelda in terms of combat by an absolute landslide.

One last thing, naturally I've named my horse PotD. Definitely a more worthy honour than Bipin and Blossom's kid in the Oracle games.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/c/ca713bf3.jpg

I love the graphics of Twilight Princess but the game almost gets too dark and blurry for its own good sometimes

I've made it to the second dungeon of Twilight Princess. I've collected only 5 Heart Pieces (this game changes the long standing tradition of 4 Heart Pieces becomes 1 new heart, this time it's 5), and I've also purchased the Hylian Shield.

The wolf sections have always been divisive, and I definitely fall on the side that dislikes them. It feels way too restrictive, and aside from the ability Midna gives you early on to attack multiple enemies at once, there really isn't much ability development for wolf Link. It also feels pretty out of place, and the game hasn't done a convincing job story wise explaining why it needed to happen. It feels more like someone at Nintendo had an idea and nobody told them "no" or asked "how can we make this better".

That being said, the regular Link sections are generally great. The segment where you have to be escorted through poisonous fog by a monkey is pretty annoying given that you were just liberated from the tedious wolf Link section, but it's over pretty quick.

The first dungeon was a lot of fun, and the central mechanism of rescuing the captive monkeys who then repay you by helping you access different parts of the dungeon was a great idea that was made very well. The boss was really cool from a visual standpoint, but content or challenge wise was really lacking. I know this is a common thread throughout the rest of this game as well, and this first boss kind of gets a free pass for being, well, the first boss, but it's still disappointing.

The world of this game is outstanding, Hyrule feels more immense than ever. Leaving Ordon and the Faron Woods gives a feeling similar to that of leaving Kokiri Forest in Ocarina of Time, and really starts to open your eyes to just how big this Hyrule is.

The character arc of Colin going from timid to brave gets fulfilled way too quickly and early in the game, not leaving enough time or events to convincingly portray this arc meaningfully. I know that Zelda games really haven't been known for their story telling, but there was a lot of potential with this one and I wish they had taken just a bit of time and effort to polish it.

My progress has been slow lately but I'm hoping to speed it up later this week. I'm still aiming to have everything up to and including Spirit Tracks done by the end of August. It might still be possible!

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/7/7b3ce257.jpg

Oh what, you don't want to play the DS ones on Wii U!? XD

My favorite thing about Twilight Princess was watching my brother get to the part of the first dungeon where you need to hit the switches in a certain order with the boomerang, with the solution in the pattern on the floor. He was there for like 10 minutes, and kept saying DON'T TELL ME!

My sister beat Twilight Princess before me...I think she was like, 12? I was so proud. It took her 90-something hours, so way longer than me. But that makes it cooler since she was immersed in the world.

Well my brother was 2 years older than me, so like... 18 at the time?

ReturnOfFa posted...

Oh what, you don't want to play the DS ones on Wii U!? XD

edit I see that's not possible because of your Wii U

Progress has been very slow lately, I've had a rough week. I'm playing right now, and I'm about halfway through the third dungeon, the Lakebed Temple. I just beat the miniboss.

I'm appreciating the world building that Twilight Princess tries to do. Early in the game it was a bit overkill, but it definitely finds a groove around the second dungeon. The resistance the Gorons have towards receiving help from humans is quite sad but builds a lot of background story regarding their overly proud nature. Collecting the boss key pieces from the three Goron elders in the Goron Mines was a really neat way of showing Link earning their trust.

The Zoras as a graceful and intelligent community really suits their place in the story as well. Twilight Princess does a much better job at giving these groups a distinct culture than any of the previous games have. The actual design of the Gorons and Zoras is also far better than ever, especially the Zoras.

The third wolf section was just as bad as the other ones. It only took about 15 minutes to complete, but it feels like an eternity. The map automatically updating to reveal the location of the final tear was done in a really odd way, and removes a lot of the immersion. There have been a few other weird immersion breaking moments, including Link catching a rebounding key midair after the second battle with King Bulblin. There was something else that happened where I actually said out loud "this is pointless" but I can't remember what it was (I'll post an update if I can remember, again it's been a crazy week so I'm a bit hazy on Zelda details).

The last thing I'll say is that Hyrule is really awkward to navigate without warping. I thought Minish Cap's Hyrule was tough to figure out, Twilight Princess's straight up makes no geographic sense. Even the design of the exterior of Death Mountain is weird, it looks like a ball of lava, and yet you climb the mountain and there's nothing. I know that the warp ability is unlocked soon after where I am now, but the segment between the second and third dungeons really makes you think about where you need to go and exactly how you can get there.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/c/c1342fb2.jpg

I've received the Master Sword and completed the fourth dungeon in Twilight Princess. Additionally, between the third and fourth dungeon, I did a moderate amount of sidequesting and exploring, including upgrading my bomb bags, quiver, and wallet, as well as finding several Heart Pieces and opening the Malo Mart in Castle Town.

I've really enjoyed how much more immersive the dungeons are in Twilight Princess. Their design feels more detailed than previous games, more closely feeling like they served a purpose to the people in the game. The fourth dungeon, Arbiter's Grounds, exemplifies this as it has its purpose explicitly stated in the story. It was also interesting in that the dungeon felt like two dungeons in one; the first half was clearly a nod to the Forest Temple in Ocarina of Time with the four Poe Sisters, and the second half felt more like was the dungeon was stylistically intended to be. It was also a unique choice giving you the item (the Spinner) so extremely late in the dungeon, easily the latest in a dungeon any item in the 3D games had been given (not counting the Giant's Mask in Majora's Mask). The miniboss of this dungeon was also really cool, and makes you wonder what lore reason there was was for it being there.

The ability to warp opens up the overworld considerably. My only complaint is the inexplicable need for you to change into wolf form to warp, and even more annoying, the requirement for nobody to see you while changing forms. I don't understand why Link being able to change to a wolf must be kept so secret from the other characters.

Therein lies a large issue with Twilight Princess: it requires you to suspend way too much disbelief and not ask "why". I don't require realism in a fictional fantasy game, but consistent logical reasoning would be nice. Why didn't Zelda escape with you and Midna? What power did Zelda grant Midna after the third dungeon? Why did Zelda fade away after giving that power, and how does she reappear at the end of the game? Why is Hyrule Castle now encased in twilight? Even more minor questions arise, like why are some characters Hylian and other characters regular humans (I get that Ordonians might be different, but I noticed that Ashei in the team that meets in Telma's bar also is human despite being "from the mountains")?

There are, however, some unanswered questions that add to the mystery of the story. I really like how little they explain why Ganondorf was granted the Triforce of Power during his execution. It makes it seem that the goddesses of the Triforce understand balance and equity, and that the background lore of Ganondorf being caught because of Ocarina of Time Link exposing his plan before it happened to the Royal Family highlights that the goddesses were sympathetic to the fact that Ganondorf in this timeline wasn't even given a chance.

I appreciate that this game finds things for you to spend rupees on in ways that are less forced than Wind Waker, but the wallet sizes are WAY too small. I know they somewhat fixed this in the Wii U version, though. Also, I like how much of a love letter to Ocarina of Time this game is. There are many music tracks like the boss music from fire bosses as well as the "escape from Ganon's Tower" music that have been reused in brand new contexts. I know the game received some criticism for trying too much to be like Ocarina of Time, but I think it more than establishes its own unique feel in its own way.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/3/3a843db7.jpg

I've made it to the sixth dungeon now.

The fifth dungeon was awesome, I've always loved how creative it was helping out the yeti couple. It's still very funny to me that the yeti wife can't remember where she stored the boss key, and instead you wind up finding soup ingredients for her instead. A lot of credit is due as well for how you obtain the Ball and Chain item directly from the miniboss (and not to mention how unique of an item that is in the series, along with the Spinner from the fourth dungeon. Obviously Nintendo was trying to innovate with this game). The carrying of cannonballs between walls and to a destination cannon was also a great idea that they pulled off very well.

The build up to the sixth dungeon has its highs and lows. I don't think it was a good idea for them to make you repeat the Lost Woods section again, which was pretty much exactly the same as it was the first time. However, the reveal as to what the sixth dungeon is still stands as one of my favourite moments in the series. It's truly yet another "love letter to Ocarina of Time" moment for sure.

My progress has seemingly sped up. There aren't many other sidequests I'll be doing, as I don't plan on getting all 20 hearts, so it's mostly just a straight line to the end of this game now. I do remember the section after the sixth dungeon to be the worst part of the game, though. We'll see what I think this time.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/5/54f6ec94.jpg