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I'd argue it's not really a roguelike because the route isn't randomly generated and is the same for every run.This. Do you even carry over progress into the next playthrough?
Do you even carry over progress into the next playthrough?
Strictly speaking, that's a rogueli t e, not a rogueli k e.
tbf; metaprogress isn't genre defining
I'd argue it's not really a roguelike because the route isn't randomly generated and is the same for every run.
I'm glad this topic has followed the typical pattern of genre discussion going from "Haha, here's a quirky genre interpretation" to "Well akshully!" to "Wait, that's dumb because it ruins 90% of the genre" back to "Well akshully!"Wait, people say Skyrim isn't an RPG?
That's why genre definitions are either very tight from the start or basically muddy and vague aside from one overarching sort of criteria. Nobody actually wants to hear a long explanation of why FFX is actually a basketball game because of Blitzball or how Skyrim is actually an FPS and not an RPG because true RPGs have x y and z. Even if the argument is somewhat coherent it doesn't achieve anything meaningful and its very annoying.
I'm glad this topic has followed the typical pattern of genre discussion going from "Haha, here's a quirky genre interpretation" to "Well akshully!" to "Wait, that's dumb because it ruins 90% of the genre" back to "Well akshully!"
That's why genre definitions are either very tight from the start or basically muddy and vague aside from one overarching sort of criteria. Nobody actually wants to hear a long explanation of why FFX is actually a basketball game because of Blitzball or how Skyrim is actually an FPS and not an RPG because true RPGs have x y and z. Even if the argument is somewhat coherent it doesn't achieve anything meaningful and its very annoying.
Nobody actually wants to hear a long explanation of why FFX is actually a basketball game because of Blitzballummm ackshually that makes it a soccer game because blitzball is based on the Captain Tsubasa games on the famicom and super famicom
ummm ackshually that makes it a soccer game because blitzball is based on the Captain Tsubasa games on the famicom and super famicom
No, the majority of rogue lites aren't turned based.
That's for traditional roguelikes, which have been around way, way longer.
No, the majority of rogue lites aren't turned based.
That's for traditional roguelikes, which have been around way, way longer.
lite and like are the same thing im tired of pretending they're different
Being turn-based isn't a particularly meaningful genre descriptor for roguelikes, though. The primary defining criterion is permadeath and an experience that gets randomized between runs. That core gameplay element of having to adapt to whatever randomness gets thrown at you without getting a second chance is what characterizes the subgenre that Rogue spawned. Restricting the term to only being used for turn-based games that utilize that concept adds pretty much nothing to it, and lumping all other styles under the same umbrella of "roguelite" makes little to no sense because the whole point of "lite" over "like" represents the fact that metaprogression options mitigate the extent to which the game's challenges have to be overcome with pure skill/practice (whereas being turn-based or not doesn't inherently indicate anything about the difficulty).
Nah, basically what happened is a bunch of games came out that were roguelike-like, and then the definition became muddled. It was fairly easy before 2010.It was easier because it was like 30 dumb PC-engine games nobody under the age of 40 cared about or even knew existed. Then Spelunky and Binding of Isaac came out and people started making games in that genre again.
Wait, people say Skyrim isn't an RPG?Jeff Gerstmann said Bethesda games aren't actual RPGs on his podcast last week. I don't think its a completely incoherent argument but again, either strict definitions or barely explicable ones are the only way to classify stuff and videogames are not meaningfully served by the former.
Not all of the traditional roguelikes have every single one, but the majority of them have the majority of these.
It was easier because it was like 30 dumb PC-engine games nobody under the age of 40 cared about or even knew existed. Then Spelunky and Binding of Isaac came out and people started making games in that genre again.
Randomized, permadeath, Turn-based, grid based, non-modal, complexity, resource management, hack-and-slash, and exploratory are all considered major tenants of a roguelike.
Mostly, if you advertise a game now as being a roguelike and it doesn't have permadeath or randomization, you're going to mislead customers. If you advertise a game as being a roguelike that has permadeath and randomization but isn't turn- or grid-based, however, customers looking for a turn-/grid-based game will know not to buy the game by looking further into the sort of gameplay experience it offers (or it will have been advertised as an "action roguelike" or something like that that explicitly indicates it's not a turn-based game, because "roguelike" on its own doesn't indicate much about the sort of game it is and therefore I wouldn't even really call it a discrete genre so much as a broader descriptive term). Words mean what people agree they mean, and the majority of people agree that "roguelike" refers to permadeath and randomization more so than anything else.
It's more suitable to define a "Rogue clone" than a "Rogue-like,"I think the most common term is "traditional roguelike", in that they're actually really like Rogue and not just halfways. There's still the occasional game that comes out thats definitely in the traditional style, like Caves of Qud or Unreal World (which is actually old, but it's still getting regular updates and has a Steam release now)
Cogmind is the kind of game I'd probably have fun watching someone else play, it didn't really mesh with me either. Not that any traditional roguelike ever has lol